Own a tankless water heater? Take our survey

Consumer Reports is currently testing tankless water heaters for a report in our October 2008 issue, and we’d like to hear about consumers' experiences with tankless water heaters. If you have installed a tankless water heater at your home, please take our survey.

Thanks in advance, and look for our report in the October issue. Please note that we value your privacy and will keep all of your information confidential. (Read our privacy policy here.)

Comments

[Sean Donovan]

Have had a Rinnai R53-I for 2 years now. Excellent Unit with no problems. If I had a complaint, it would be when using it with my front loading washing machine. The washer cycles the water on and off when it is filling. The Rinnai goes into an evacuation cycle when the water flow stops and before it is finished the washer begins using the water again so the water heater cannot keep up. This problem can be fix by running a return line from a distant fixture and a circulation pump with a timer to keep the water heater running.

[greg kittelson]

i bought a propane heater for my mountain cabin & it's the best thing since pressed ham. it was a little pricey to install, but in the long run it saves propane & is good for the earth.

[David Grinkis]

have had a tankless coil in my house since built in 1969. It was replaced after 26 years. A new boiler was installed 4 years ago which also has a tankless coil hot water in it. Positive: you can take a shower all day long and not run out of hot water.Negative: it doesn't have enough capacity for a hot bath and sometimes a shower may not be HOT!

[Ryan Fletcher]

I installed a Bosch 80 amp electric model four months ago and am very happy with it. I put up a site so folks could see how easy it is to install and give them the information I had a hard time finding for myself.

[Valerie Bullard]

We installed a tankless water heater thinking to save money and always have hot water. Hated it from the start. I like very hot showers and this seemed not to be an option. If you turned up the thermostat the water would change from freezing to scorching and back all during the shower. If you set the thermostat to keep it from doing that the temperature would be way too cool to enjoy.
Someone recently suggested that we needed a much larger unit to avoid that, We just bought another normal hot water heater and it's great.

[bob anderson]

Yes to the tankless system -- we all need to get rid of those wasteful 80 gallon dinosaurs. And please CR start researching and running articles about solar, wind and more sustainability!

[r parker]

A tankless water heater may be the most regrettable and problem-ridden purchase I've ever made. Immediately after it was installed in my older home in 2004, the heater would shut off and require resetting right in the middle of a shower. This happened dozens of times.
Several repairs have been needed, and on two separate occasions I've had to go without hot water for days and days while I waited for parts to be shipped.
Eventually I threw in the towel (ha-ha) and repiped my whole house on the suggestion of my plumber. This very expensive correction wrecked the tile in both bathrooms, but did improve the performance of the water heater. I still sometimes have the water temperature fluctuate or go cold in the midst of my shower, and the water wasted down the drain while it heats up again can't be helping the environment.
I've found it difficult to communicate with the company, because their technical help desk only wants to talk to professionals. I've found it difficult to find professionals who are experienced working with this type of product. This product seems to have very special requirements in order to work correctly; consumers should research and consider this very carefully before purchase.

[Linda]

I would like you to find out if there is a small unit that i can put in my bathroom that would handle both a sink and the shower and tub. My conventional Hot water heater does fine with the sinks and tubs close by, but our bathroom is about 50 feet from the tank and it takes almost 5 gallons of water to run b4 it gets hot. I know there are units out there that you can put under the sink and hopfully you will investigate these as well.
Thanks, Linda

[E Thomsen]

I just installed a Bosch Model AE125 purchased from Ace Hardware. All went well until we turned on the water and water sprayed out of the heater over all of the electrical parts. We returned it and the Ace hardware guys noted that it had been improperly tested before being shipped to us. I have a hard time believing this is a real Bosch product. The plastic tube that connects the flow interface to the heating elements (prevents a ground connection I assume) was completely loose. This didn't happen in shipping. It arrived this way. This cost me hundreds of dollars in labor. Why? These have been used in Europe for Decades. Can we please have those Real European products shipped over here!

[E.Garcia]

Well, I was seriously considering a Tank less but there seems to be more expensive flaws than positive attributes. Thanks for all of your comments. It really helped!

[debra penn]

We recently purchased a Stiebel Eltron Tempra 24 for an older Florida home which required some upgrading of our breaker panel and only minor plumbing modifications.I can tell you from experience, that inconsistent or "weak" water flow/pressure WILL adversely affect the performance of any tankless unit. We did raise the pressure of our water pump (we have a well) in order to correct this problem. So far, so good. My sister, Washington state, purchased a tankless unit 20 years ago. Said it paid for itself the first couple of years and has had no problems.

[Stan Gurka]

We were really excited about a tankless system but are apprehensive about all of the problems and will probably go with a traditional inefficient but reliable tank system.

[Alex]

Well after getting a 825.00 oil bill for 162gal The oil burner is going to the curb. At this rate it will cost me $1600-2000 a mos for oil during the winter.. I'm going to install 2propane commercial units (maybe piggybacked).I was looking at The Rheem and Takagi Units. They will run my hole house which incldes 3 baths and 3 zones of hydronic baseboard heat.Any suggestions or ideas? Wish me luck.

[Nick Hayer]

We are in Scotland on vacation to attend my oldest son's graduation from U of Edinburgh. The 'flat' we have rented has an electric hot water shower. It is a DC Dimplex AX3. No idea about reliability and cost effectiveness but for functionality it fits the bill perfectly.

I came here to ConsumerReports for some buying advice..

[Michael]

I had a Takagi-K3 installed in a three family home back in Febuary '08. I never even told the tenants I was installing the unit. To this day no one has had a complaint. I haven't seen much of a difference in my gas bill (due to this years rate being higher than lasts). However I know it could be a lot worse. My only regret is I didn't do it sooner.

[Christine]

My new Paloma tankless hot water heater ($1000) has a valve triggered by water pressure that starts the heater. I cannot add a trickle of hot water to anything, from a shower to water for the goldfish tank. A trickle will not start the heater. In fact, my dishwasher does not draw enough water pressure to start the heater. The manufacturer tells me that I have to run another hot water faucet in the house to keep up the pressure through the heater when I want to run a trickle. I also have trouble with the heater quitting when it gets too hot and recycling from hot to cold. Back to my dishwasher, the maximum temp on the GAS tankless heater that I have is 120 degrees - not high enough for a dishwasher. I'd rather have a tank and put a timer on its thermostat so it cools down during the day and starts up about the time I get home.

[grace bernard]

I am considering installing a tankless water heater; paloma model#426-588 or the Rinnai R-75. I have 2 1/2 bathrooms. Has anyone installed any of these units, and what has been your experience? Please advice.

[Cecile]

We bought a tankless water heater from Ace hardware. It is a Powerstar. We had to add a new breaker for this unit. It is terrible. It will trip when the water has run for less than 20 or more seconds. We have to go upstairs switch the breaker, then come back downstairs, crawl under the kitchen cabinet, press the switch, then go back upstairs and flip the breaker again. It is never predictable as to how much hot water we will have. It is a 2 gallon water heater. We are ready to pull it out but do not know what to replace it with if at all. Any suggestions with help. If any one knows of a good and reliable brand for a small space under the sink please share. The Powerstar cost about $150.00. Thanks

[Todd]

I just built a new home and installed two Rinnai R75 units in tandem to feed the entire house, which includes 2 regular bathrooms, and a master bath with a large jacuzzi tub and 5 gpm shower head. I would highly recommend the Rinnai, as it is one of the only units on the market that will not fluctuate temperatures on you. If the demand for water is to high, it will simply slow down volume until sufficient temperature is reached. The main thing to remember in tankles heaters is GPM. You must have your heater properly sized to your wants and needs. nothing against the retail home stores and local hardware stores, but they simply do not have the experience and expertise to properly size the units for the consumer's needs. This seems to be the main reason people have a negative experience with them. Unlike a conventional hot water heater where you are looking at amount of water stored and recovery rate, in a tankless unit you need to look at how many GPM do I need heated at the one time, what rise in temperature is needed, and how far away from the unit is my fixtures. It takes planning and thought, but if you do it right, you can't go wrong! hope this helps

[Joe V.]

I installed a Bosch Aquastar 125B that burns natural gas. I have had it two years and it already paid for itself.

What I like about the unit: Installation was easy. The unit is small, lightweight and constructed well of high quality materials. Can be mounted on a wall to free up valuable space. You have an endless supply of hot water. I am able to run my washer and shower at the same time with no problems. My natural gas usage is less than 2/3 of what it was with the tank water heater. Saves money. Has a very small pilot that can be turned off if you go on vacation or whatever and can be easily re-ignited with the press of a button.

What I don't like about the unit: Requires a 5" vent pipe. Unable to run a trickle of warm water.

While the initial investment seems high, the unit has paid for itself. The good points such as energy savings and money savings definitely outweigh any negative aspects of the water heater. I hope that this information is helpful for anyone who may be considering the purchase of such a water heater.

[JD]

We just came back from living in China for 2 years where almost all new residential construction (i.e., last 10 years of construction) uses tankless. They are extremely effective, and unlike what I'm seeing in the U.S., they are just as cheap as tank systems. We were very pleased with our tankless systems (instant, endless hot water in a compact space). However, it appears to be one of those areas where the economies of scale in the U.S. (e.g., the U.S. demand) have not caught up to make this ecoomical (i.e., based on purchase price alone, tanks seam cheaper than tankless here). Thus, it appears to be one of those areas where I think the U.S. lags. If U.S. demand picks up, the prices on these should drop like a rock, as they are already being mass produced in the 10's of millions overseas.

[Shawna Knight]

We just installed a Monitor Tankless Water Heater and so far so good. It takes a little while for hot water to get to the bathroom even thought the unit is in the next room. I've started washing my hands in cold water as I'm annoyed by hearing the unit fire up when I turn on the tap and it remains on for a few seconds after I've turned off the tap and I still haven't felt hot water. I was able to turn up the temperature by 10 degrees as the factory set temp of 125f wasn't hot enough for me. I love the space saving as well as the fact that I'm not keeping a resivoir of water hot all day when I use so little hot water.

[Pat Hefling]

Purchased a Bosch 2400E natural gas tankless heater to replace a 40 gallon NG heater. Costs of heater was about $900, plus a $731 bill to plumber to re-plumb for the installation. It provides enough hot water, and have seen a savings of about $30 per month. Downsides: Must have continous flow to maintain hot water. Off/On rinsing intersperses cold water. Wife hates it. Trick learned is to brush teeth before shower with the hot water running, then turn on shower, before shutting off sink water. This will maintain the flow of hot water.

[Andrew]

I recently bought a vacation home in the mountains, and it came with a Takagi tankless water heater. The unit (and the house) is only 3 years old and it has had no problems. For a second home, going tankless is certainly better than keeping a tank hot or having to re-warm it every time you visit. However, the drawback to tankless is that it produces hot water only when water demand reaches a pre-determined threshold (about .75 gal/min. of flow) When the water flow falls below this threshold, the heater shuts off. This occurs with dishwashing and laundry washing machines, and can produce uneven (or no) hot water during their cycles. It also means that I sometimes have to wait 30 seconds for hot water at the kitchen sink...and I'm reluctant to turn the hot water off because I'll have to wait again.

I've been told by several "experts" that the solution is a recirculating pump, but I'm reluctant to make that additional investment given my limited use of the home.

[Steve]

I just learned about a recirculating hot water appliance brand: "Chilipepper Hot Water Demand System pump" www.chilipperapp.com, which appears to be simpler, lower in operating cost, and can be installed diy. Has anyone checked this product? It operated by push-button Remote control, and is not "on" continually.

[Steve - AZ]

Installed a bosch 250sx in Phoenix, AZ the problems are:

1) Dishwasher does not activate the flow to get Hot Water in the DW, may kill us from food contamination.

2) Front loading washer cycles smalls amounts of hot water to test when it thinks its full so very little hot water gets in.

3) Showers, in AZ when tap water comes out at 85 degrees and the 250sx min BTU is 31,000 you get min 134 degree water unless your willing to run the sink tap full volume to get 3+ gpm of hot water flowing so you can throw away 1.5 gpm down the drain used to cool off the heat exchanger so you can shower in less than scalding water.

Bottom Line these do not work with newer applainces or warm city water supply. Wish they did. Now after fighting with Bosch, buying a $170 remote control (that has now effect) now being beyond the 90 day return both retialer and manufacture say "so sorry it's not defective and you own it!"

POS PITA

[Steve]

Looking for recommendations on best combination gas-fired hydronic heating and indirect storage domestic hot water residential system. Appreciate whatever advice you may offer. Thanks.

[Ruth]

I have had a Bosch Aquastar 125 LP tankless water heater since 1999. It has given me no problems. I love the endless hot water. It supplies two major uses at once (eg shower and dishes) -- more than that is beyond its capacity. It has more than paid for itself in 9 years ($450 + $600 installation including new LP line to laundry room.) I hardly notice its LP use on our bill. We really, really like it!

It has worked well for us because:
1) Our tank is not very far from the kitchen and bath, so our water is almost instantly hot at the faucet = small house.
2) Because of our short plumbing runs, our water pressure is steady, so we don't have the fluctuations of temp that some see due to the inconsistent water flow.

Special concerns:
- next time I'd buy the pilot-less model to save even more LP
- buy and install CO alarms near the unit and another at the door in the room.
- I've recently learned that I should have maintained the water valve every year or two, I might be in for a bigger repair job now if it is corroded.

[Greg]

I don't understand the comments about the dishwasher not actuating the heater, thus, making the dishwasher useless and ineffective because of the lack of hot water. Should this be a true concern for people wanting to install a tank-less? I thought all dishwashers have a heating coil inside to heat the water before the wash cycle starts. Therefore, you don't even need to connect the dishwasher to the hot water side. Am I wrong?

[Christine]

Re. dishwashers heating cold water - yes, they do. However, the time the coil takes to heat the water is added to the time it would take if the water were already hot. My Kenmore dishwasher adds more than an hour to the washing cycle when it heats the water itself. It drives me crazy listening to it. It's wasteful. These days, I run a moderate stream of hot water in the sink and that maintains hot water for the dishwasher. However, the max. temp. of my gas hot water heater is 120 degrees F, and a dishwasher really should have water in the 140-160 degree range, especially if you expect the dishwasher soap to dissolve a lot of residue on frying pans or stewing pots or very dirty dishes and utensils. I have taken to cleaning pans with encrustation by boiling dishwasher detergent in them on the stove. I rinse everything else so there is no dried food on stuff when it goes into the dishwasher.

[Reyn Johnson]

I have owned a Rinnai Direct Vent Tankless Water Heater model R94LSi installed about a month ago (end of June, 2008)

Unit is remarkably efficient. We have two adults, three teenagers, and frequent guests using it every morning. We have a high capacity washer, and many natural gas appliances including a Wolf stove.

I cannot recommend this unit more highly: it is excellent.

During installation, we found we weren't getting enough gas supplied to it, so our plumber, Dale Plumbing of Redwood City, installed a separate dedicated gas line to it. That did the trick, now it has all of the natural gas it needs.

We found that our local city government has standards to which these tankless units must adhere. They came out and inspected it, the roof vent installation (requires a new vent), and issued a certificate of acceptance. It's nice to know that it has been installed correctly and with all of the check list items checked.

[James McDaniel]

I put one of these units in a house in Florida when I built it 12 years ago. The heating coil went out about a year after being put in use. Titan replaced my whole unit and it is still working fine. I am getting ready to build another house further North and plan to split the water supply in the house and dedicate one heater solely to the master bath and the other to the rest of the house. I'm torn between using the electric Titan or a LP Rinnai. Any comments or suggestions would help.

[J Webb]

Absolutely HATE, HATE, HATE our Rinnai tankless hot water heater. The hottest temperature it can be set to is 110 degrees. Along with the low temperature, I have to run the faucet in the nearest sink literally for a MINIMUM of 5 minutes before turning on the dishwasher or my HE washing machine when I'm washing a load on "Hot". I would love to have our Rinnai ripped out and replaced with something that actually produces hot water. DO NOT BUY ONE OF THESE RINNAI TANKLESS WATER HEATERS!!!!

[Peter McLaughlin]

Noritz Noise - I have had a Noritz tankless water heater installed for more than a month and I don't know what is worse - living with the noise it makes each time we use hot water or dealing with the noise coming from Noritz's home office in Fountain Valley, California on how to fix the problem. When ever hot water is used, a "servo" opens to allow for hot water. The noise coming from the servo is channeled through the 1" copper line into my home. It took Noritz well over a month to send a technician, but not before the technician's diagnosed the problem over the phone and told my plumber to install a check valve and a pressure regulator first -- at my expense, of course. When those "fixes" failed to correct the problem, Noritz still refused my plumber's request to meet with a tech until I called and emailed their office. Noritz says it is aware that in homes with wood floors on pier and beam foundations that the servo noise will reverberate through the plumbing and "echo" through ground floor. According to Noritz, "Homes with slab foundations and carpeting have less of problem." Based on that advice, there are 10s of thousands of homes that should not install Noritz tankless water heaters. Noritz now advises us to install a 3/4" flex line from the unit to the copper line to "isolate" the servo vibration as much as possible - at my expense again. Worse, the supervisor overseeing all the technicians refused to provide his boss's name and phone number so we could appeal up the chain of command. My plumber, having never seen this behavior before from a supplier, has since canceled all installs of Noritz for his customers. The bummer is that the system has worked perfectly, otherwise. Greatly appreciate any thoughts and suggestions - please post your response here and also feel free to email me at peterjerri@gmail.com Thanks in advance!

[D]

I Purchased a Bosch 2400NG about 3 weeks ago and have had many of the problems I read in the blogs. First, the internal water valve went bad in it, stuck closed. Now, I have run into problems where it is overshooting the set temperature. I have it set at 110 F, but when the shower is on it is outputting 130 F (input water temp is 59 F). So, then you turn down the shower (mixing in more cold water). Then the flow thorough the heater goes below the 0.7 gallons per minute threshold and it turns off. Then you then get blasted with cold water in the shower and turn it up starting the whole too hot-too cold cycle again. I need to also have a sink on to allow it to output the correct temperature. That doesn't help save natural resources much.

Up to now I am sorry that I switched to the tankless system.

[J Dickinson]

We invested early in a company that made tankless HWH - Envirotech Systems, Inc. As investors that were building a house, we got one of the semi-prototypes of the ESI 2000. Installed it myself and it supplied a guest bath and a half, the kitchen w/ dishwasher, and a utility shower/basin. It was great for 7 years - just recently went up - not bad for a prototype really. We got another one shortly after it was upgraded and UL approved, etc. Installed it myself as well - with a subpanel and the whole works. It has been just great for 5 years and still going. Supplies the master bath (2 showers) and laundry and they can all be going at the same time and plenty hot.

Unfortunately, the principals of that company were evidently dolts and it went belly-up - bought out by Skye International. They have just started producing the Fortis electric HWH.

Again unfortunate, they will not sell direct - and I do not feel like paying more than the unit costs to have a electrician/plumber install it (not that the local one's would have more expertise than I do at this point).

But the unit looks good. The technology looks solid. I would love for CR to test one. And I would love for the company to get a decent marketing plan that does not rely on a slow and reluctant profession to lead the way to the new age of HW. Looks like I might not be able to buy a replacement from the company I own stock in and that is sad.

[Maggie Lusk]

It would be helpful if those posting would list the Name Brand of your tankless, model # and amount of bathrooms,family size.We have a Bosh AquaStar AQ125BLP. For a one bathroom family of 4. We have no dishwasher & the unit was not big enough. It has broken down twice in 4 years. We have the trickle problem mentioned above. The comment about GPM is the real issue. However, I would not buy another Bosh AquaStar unit @ HomeDepot again. We had every internal part replaced (except for the tank) & it lasted another 3 months. We live in MT. We are now looking at the Takagi vs. Baxi unit.Baxi is considered by my plumber to be the best unit on the market, better than Rinnai. We are anticipating selling our house & I wouldn't want to sell the Baxi with the house. This is the only reason we are considering the Takagi instead.

[Maggie Lusk]

It would be helpful if those posting would list the Name Brand of your tankless, model # and amount of bathrooms,family size.We have a Bosh AquaStar AQ125BLP. For a one bathroom family of 4. We have no dishwasher & the unit was not big enough. It has broken down twice in 4 years. We have the trickle problem mentioned above. The comment about GPM is the real issue. However, I would not buy another Bosh AquaStar unit @ HomeDepot again. We had every internal part replaced (except for the tank) & it lasted another 3 months. We live in MT. We are now looking at the Takagi vs. Baxi unit.Baxi is considered by my plumber to be the best unit on the market, better than Rinnai. We are anticipating selling our house & I wouldn't want to sell the Baxi with the house. This is the only reason we are considering the Takagi instead.

[Walter Megura]

We have a three year old home. I am considering replacing the tank for a waterless just to conserve. I am glad to review the information on this site and will now wait until a review is completed, by CR, before going forward. Thanks all

[Chuck Bering]

Has anyone had experience with using multiple types of water heaters in a home to overcome the problems with tankless? For example: a small tank water heater between the tankless and the faucets/outlets to provide a steadier flow and hotter water when needed. It may not save as much in operational costs, but if it eliminates the noted problems with tankless heaters it may be worth it. Are there any plumbing experts with thoughts on this idea?

[Jeff K.]

Does anyone have any experience sending partially heated water (from a solar hot water system) to a tankless system? I currently send my pre-heated water to a propane tank heater that needs to be replaced (the whole system provides 160 gallons of hot water to a 5 bedroom / 5 bath home that frequently has 12 people in it.

[Adam]

Power Star Bosch Model #115
For Arkansas south of Little Rock. Ok so we moved from NYC to Arkansas for more land less taxes. Use to dealing with Con ed for gas with no problems, Well out here its different , We use propane that is delivered to us and it seems like these companies like ferral gas take advantage of customers that have no choice , so I kicked them to the curb , I ran new Lines, 6 gauge wire from My 200 amp breaker 4 hot lines ON 40 AMP breakers ( 2) and easy flex 3/4 piping that was connected to old water pipes from old water heater and it is working great, small unit 22 pounds , If you know what you doing to install it can be well worth it , Gas is rising , electric is the new way to go . Kick the gas companies to the curb , peace

[Mary Babineau]

We have had a tankless for 21 years and it worked fine until our children became old enough to want daily, 20 minute showers before school bringing our hot water need up to 5 showers each morning before 6:45. We never have enough hot water and the supply can fluctuate during one shower from hot to cold and every temp between several times. We are scheduling, planning and timing the length of showers to make it work with at least lukewarm water for everyone. We are getting a new boiler now and are not planning to put in a tankless. (Being the early riser pays off here!)

[Carol Byrnes]

I love my Rinnai. You can set the temperature to 125 or higher, but it isn't necessary. I never run out in the shower and it doesn't go from hot to cold. It stays consistent. It works with my HE washer and my new Kenmore dishwasher. No problems here.

[Aaron Graber]

After seeing all of the comments about difficulties that tankless hot water heaters have with dishwashers, I have a question. Since I presume that all dishwashers have heating elements in them (at least all that I have owned do), would it just be more efficient to let the dishwasher heat up the small amount of water and not even hook it up to the hot water line? Would this idea be energy efficient? I know this sounds strange, but I have never heard anyone ask this question, and just wondered if anyone knows if either it is a good idea, or a crazy one?

[Richard]

My old electric water heater (80 gal)finally died today -- no hot water for showers or anything else.
I'm glad I signed up for the $19 CR service to learn
about the tankless water heaters, since it has convinced me they're not for our family. I'll stick with a new conventional water heater (80 gal) as well as one or two Chilipepper units that recirculate the cold water until the hot water reaches the upper floors, where our bedrooms & bathrooms are mainly located. CR has likely saved me money and hassle already. Many thanks.

[Bill]

Be sure to check out "Navien" tankless heaters. I'm going through the buying process right now (and yes, Consumer Reports has let me down again by not having reviews available...), and though they seem to be very new to North America, their specs are great and four different contractors in my area recommended them (independently!). I gather Navien is based in South Korea.... I'll be getting mine installed next month and will provide comments once it's in and working. Since they're new, and no one else has mentioned them, I thought it worth making sure they got on your radar.

[Nancy]

I would request that they include Rheem Tankless systems in the eval. I am considering one of these units. My brother has one and it seemed OK, but I would like a larger sample size and more information. Thanks!

[Daniel Mooney]

In June, 2008,I purchased a house in Bradenton, FL that included a master bathroom by Dream Maker Bath & Kitchens of Palmetto, FL who designed, procured parts for and installed the bathroom. The work was completed in December, 2007.
This custom bath included a Bosch Pro Tankless water heater model #GWH-635-ES.
After moving in in late June of 2008, we discovered that this unit was unreliable and dangerous to use. When showering, the selected water temperature would suddenly rise to it's limiting temperature of 120 degrees F., burning the occupant and then trip off.
After repeated calls, the Dream Maker Co. arranged for Bosch to provide a new tankless water heater. When it was installed,it demonstrated the same fault of going to 120 degrees F. and then tripping off. The installer identified a defective computer circuit board. I was told that Bosch would would send a replacement overnight. After a week, the replacement part had not arrived and the seller, Dream maker stated that they would not do anything else to correct the problem and that any further costs would be our responsibility.
After a month of no hot water for bathing, doing laundry or washing dishes I replaced the defective Bosch unit with a tank type heater. This solved the problem
In my experience, the Bosch tankless water heaters are defective and dangerous.

[angelican]

I have a 19 year old water heater that needs to be replaced. I have been reading the blogs. My water heater is installed in the attic of my 2 story house. The plumber that came out to take care of a different job told me that I needed to re-place my hot water heater and that a tank less water heater wouldn't work because of the age of my house and due to the plumbing that is present.

I live in the Houston, Tx area.

Can someone please advise. Please feel free to e-mail me: angelicanis@hotmail.com
Thanks!

[Chip]

For us, the best water heating solution has been as follows: we needed a new water heater. I purchased a conventional WH but did not throw out the old one, instead I hooked them together. Water flows into the old tank 1st. This tank does not heat the water,(it is not connected to the electricity) but merely acts as a holding tank, and will bring the water in the tank to room temp. This room temp. water then flows into the new WH where it is heated to the desired temp. This does not require as much energy because it is already at room temp. We also added a timer ($50) to our WH. Now our WH only stays on 6 hours a day, and we have plenty of hot water.

[Sharyn]

Can you use the hot water for cooking? It is not recommended to use hot water from the tank heating system for cooking because of the minerals, rust inside the hot water tanks. So, I'm wondering if you can use the hot water for cooking from the tankless?

[Robert Fink]

I originally purchased a Bosch 250SX propane tankless in 2005. The co2 level could not be adjusted to prevent load noise coming from unit when it turned on and shut off.After many calls to bosch they finally agreed to replace the discontinued 250sx with a 2400e-lp for free July 2007.The new unit made no noise at all.The only problem I'm having is the the water is to hot at a low flow rate.With the larger 2400e-lp temperature set for 110 Degrees at a low flow rate the hot water comes out at 140 degrees.This is because the unit has two gas burner settings low and high.On a single lever faucet if you try to lower the water temperature so it's not to hot the unit shuts off because the flow rate is to low.

[Shiro Nakagawa]

I have one of the base Noritz tankless model, 631S series for about a year and a half now and I'm very satisfied with the unit. I have seen my gas bill drop close to 50% and have not had any problems. Just to be safe my son and I flushed the unit after a year since we have hard water in our area. I think its a great way to go as an investment, especially to help protect myself from future energy price increases. I'm expecting many years of hot water service and money savings from my tankless.

[Alina Ever]

Hi,
We're looking to buy an electric on demand water heater to heat our house by heating water in radiant pex tubes under our slab and floors for a house that's 2600 square feet. Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions about which company/model to use?
Thanks.

[Marcella]

We purchased our Rinnai a little over a year ago. We have been having problems with the water fluctuating from hot to cold during showers, etc. After a service call which cost $125.00 just to come out, the plumber advised us that the unit is probably damaged due to hard water deposits from our city's water. His advice was that we needed to have it flushed and cleaned (another $425.00). We would then know if our unit is still workable or if we need another one. If we do need to replace the unit, then we will have to also purchase a soft water tank for our home because these units are not made to handle hard water (unbeknownst to us when we purchased the unit). The other problem we have is that there is not enough constant stream to our HE washer or our water-efficient dishwasher (both brand new expensive units). This is leading to dirty, spotty dishes and stinky, unclean clothes. We can even run the water until it gets hot but it still won't stay that way for the machines because there is not that constant stream. The manufacturers should warn the consumers that these do not work well with water-efficient appliances. Not to mention that it really doesn't make any sense to me that we would try to conserve water and energy by purchasing these efficient appliances just to let gallons go down the drain while the water tank heats up the water. I am ready to "dump" this tankless system and go back to the conventional water heater. In defense if Rinnai, I don't think that it has to do with any type of manufacturer specifically, but that it is the whole tankless concept in itself. I think they should pull these off the market until they can work out all the "bugs." I feel as if I have been ripped off because of false advertising. I am very sad that I did not wait for Consumer Reports reviews because I usually do not make large purchases until I consult with the magazine. :(

[dpeters]

Any comments on Seisco units?

[Mike M]

We need to replace our propane gas hot water heater. I found this electric tankless company called Titan that seems to sell a well priced model that should suit our needs. I cannot find any consumer reviews on Titan. Does anyone have any experience with their products?

Thanks,

Mike M

[Liz Clinton]

We had a Noritz installed about 10 months ago when we totally remodeled our home. Our contractor said he had heard positive reports on Noritz. From the first use we noted fluctuations in the temperature while showering. Occasionally it would just shut down. To reset the system we needed to unplug the unit. Our installer contacted the company and discovered that the control unit, which will flash an error code when the system shuts off, wasn't included in the initial order and needed to be purchased separately. We did that. As a result, because the error code indicated "inadequate venting OR inadequate pressure OR inadequate flow" the installer extended the venting, modified the size of the gas supply piping, the gas company put on a new meter that assured adequate flow and verified that the regulator was working properly. Then we left home for several months believing the "fixes" were successful. Not so. Since our return in the spring the system continues to shut down sporadically and the temperature continues to fluctuate. I have been on the phone numerous times with the technician in California who, while helpful in suggesting some fixes such as changing the temperature setting ultimately only verifies that the same error code keeps giving the same possibilities. There is no company representative anywhere close so we have tried to work with the "Noritz Certified Installer" who has yet to diagnose or solve the problem -- at our expense of course. My suggestion to the technician in California that perhaps the unit is faulty has fallen on deaf ears. We truly wanted a tankless heater but have been totally discouraged by this experience.

[Dave]

We had a Rinnai installed almost a year ago and it's been great. My wife and I have traveled the world and have seen these things everywhere for decades. One writer commented that you need expert advice and I'd agree. We're on a well and knew we'd need someone who could tell us which unit would work for us, based on gallons per minute, number of appliances, water temperature coming in, etc. Also, we live in Montana and had to be concerned with the freezing of pipes, but found that having this installed in the crawl space of our home keeps it about freezing during the coldest of winter. We get endless hot water at a constant temperature and pay out less for propane usage. Installation will set you back a bit more than dropping another tank in place, but we saw gas prices starting to climb and may have already reclaimed that cost. We also gained the corner space back in our laundry room!

[Kent Milbergerf]

I have had a Takagi Tankless Water Heater in my house for 15 years and have had not a bit of problems. We all take long showers. And its great to have knowing I wont run out of hot water all the way thru the shower.

[John V]

I have a second home in Breckenridge and installed two Rinnai R94 units to replace an 80 gal gas WH on the second floor. This was in June. To date I have been happy with the outcome. Yes, it is NOT instant hot water, but it is endless. I have used the house often as have many friends that have used the house. There have been NO complaints about running out or temp problems.

They are pricy and during installation, the plumber was very upfront about the need for servicing the units at least once a year. He was also very upfront about the fact that it is not instant hot water. He even suggested some simple ways to help solve that problem. I will be experimenting with some of those solutions this winter to see if they are needed.

The piece of mind of knowing that I don't have 80 gallons of water sitting on the second floor of a house that's 400 miles away is worth a lot!!!

[Alan Nadeau]

Here in New England a great many of us heat our homes with fuel oil or kerosene. Toyotomi makes a tankless water heater for each fuel. I've had a BS-36UFF since 1997 and have had only one problem with it in all that time. I have had to have it repaired or serviced only that once.

I installed it myself when I built my house, and it did take a little fiddling around with the various controls to get the output just right. We can run two showers and the dishwasher all at once with an unlimited supply of really hot water (about 5.3 GPM), even in the dead of winter. On average it uses 0.3 gallons of K-1 per week. I have a remote timer/switch for it, so it is shut off when not needed. It only takes two minutes to go from cellar-temp water to hot.

The Maine Internal Plumbing Rules require a tempering valve (such as a Watts 70A) be installed next to a tankless water heater. I found that setting this and the heater temp correctly is the key to having a steady stream of constant-temp water.

[Matt Shearman]

I recently bought two Rinnai R94LSI's for my house. They are incredible. On about six months i have saved over $600 in gas and water. I will have made up the cost in less than two years. i Had a knowledgeable plumber help me out, and he told me that Rinnai was the best tankless heater on the market. I did some research and would have to agree. I was upset that this survey did not have Rinnai in their report. They have a picture of a man looking at a Rinnai but nothing on it. Its sad that subpar heaters, ie Noritz and Takagi, bring down the reputation of Rinnai. The cheap heaters out of the big box stores, bosch or rheem, is a perfect example of getting what you pay for. This new south korean heater, Navian, is effecient, but costs more, has two pipes that need to be vented and is not established in the US. It may be popular in SOuth Korea and Kazakstan. But, really, Kazakstan? I highly recommend Rinnai to anyone.

[Louie F]

We replaced a 50 gallon Rheem gas tank with the Rinnai R85i last December. First of all, we utilized a registered installer. Heard most of the problems with tankless were with "do it yourself" and incorrect installations so did not want ot make the same mistake. Rinnai was the only unit we found that included a notification for maintenance - the controller will flash a code when it's time. Maintenance is pretty simple and will probably do myself rather than call a plumber. With 2 teenage sons, I never have to take cold showers anymore. We can run 2 showers plus dishwasher no problem. Only problem we had was not really the water heater but the newly installed pressure balance valve in the shower, according to the plumber they had to adjust the limit stop. We are saving 30% plus on our natural gas therm usage and also gained some valuable space in the garage with the removal of the tank.

[lllamamom]

We installed a Rinnai, having had tankless hot water heaters for about 18 years, in various homes. We love them. The current Rinnai has to do extra duty, not only for the house, but also for the barn, including giving the llamas a bath. Teen girls have NOTHING on giving a wooly llama a bath while the washer is running, etc. We're actually installing one for our daughter and family, so they never have to run out of hot water either. We'll never, ever go back to a "normal" hot water heater!

[lyle]

i just installed a navien cr-240a about 3 months ago. i love it, the remotes installed upstairs so i can change temp. and adjust recirculation times without going downstairs to unit. the kids can run thru a warm sprinkler while i shower, and the washer running. plenty of water with no temperature fluctuations.

[Pierre from Quebec Canada]

Purchased my new home two years ago and it came with a Rinnai C85 tankless water heater fed by natural gas. The heater supplies all the usual hot water requirements, dishwasher, shower & bath, washing machine but thi same unit also supplies the hot water for the radiant floor heating throughout the whole house. The house is built on a ciment slab (no basement) and the radiant floor heating is the only source of heating during the colder seasons. The unit works great whene there is a medium to high demand ,however, during the summer months when the hot water demand is at its lowest, the heater's alarm will go off and stop the flow of hot water whenever only the high effeciency dishwasher is demanding hot water ,probably due to it's low flow demand. So far there are two solutions, either run the diswasher and keep a hot water tap open in the sink or take a shower at the same time. In conclusion, I'm considering plugging the dishwasher on cold water and let it heat it's own hot water. also ,as read in the above mentioned posts, finding a knowledgable plummer for these types of heaters or a company technician is not easy.

[Doug Holley]

I live in Vermont, I installed a electric tank type water heater (Steibel Tempura 29) to replace a tankless coil type water heater in our oil fired furnace. After three months, I love it. We get endless hot water with the same feed time to the faucet as the furnace provided, and oil savings per year I estimate will be 400 - 500 gallons, as the furnace has to run year round to heat the water. Our tankless electric heater cost in total, $1000. including the heater, piping, scale remover, and electrical connect bits. I did the installation. Stiebel, the manufacturer, estimated electrical consumption of the Tempura 29 model for a four person household at $400.00/year. Oil cost, presently at $4.50/gallon = $1800. -$2200./ year, So savings should be $400. - $800. this year, and $1400. - $1800. per year thereafter, if oil remains at its present level. Way early yet, but actual electrical billings received from CVPS for the first three months after installation, compared to last year and leveling for days/month show a total increase of around $10.00 over the three months bills of 2007. A year's comparison will be the better comparison. If we get in a situation where the unit fails, or there is an extended power outage, a quarter turn ball valve restores water to the furnace tankless coil and the frunace will operate off our generator. Prior to shut down of the furnace in the spring, it should be cleaned of any soot as you would prior to the heating season.

The Consumer Reports article compared gas fired tankless water heaters to alternatives. Gas fired units are a pricier than electrical units, require a chimney (dedicated?), and gas connection best left to professionals, meaning installation is expensive as well. With a gas fired unit, a flame must first heat the exchanger, so it does take longer to deliver hot water over a tank type or furnace supplied hot water as these sources are already hot.

The Consumer Reports article did mention electric tankless heaters in two sentences stating "We didn't test electric tankless heaters because most can't deliver water fast enough to replace conventional water heater if the ground water is cold." (all ground water in the Northeast is "cold", and water temperature seasonally is very constant with well depth of 80 ft or more). They added " ... most homeowners would need to upgrade their electrical service to power a whole-house tankless model."

I did save quite a bit in plumber and electrician cost because I could "do it yourself", and the hook-up was relatively simple when compared to gas models. My house, and practically any other house with 200 Amp service can use a whole-house unit. Worse case, if 4 - 6 spaces were not available, a sub panel would have to be fitted to hold either 2 x 60A or 3 x 50A breakers, depending on the model fitted. I chose the largest heater for the available power. Oil service people will forever pan these units as obviously, they want to sell more oil, and especially the service.

Electric tankless heaters would not be good for a large family using 2 or more showers, sinks and/or laundry all at the same time on public water systems where a much higher GPM of water is available. But for a rural family's of 2 - 4 with typical 5 gpm well water, the near 4 gpm hot water output of the Steibel heater at 115 degrees F is plenty for the available supply. I have already found when two showers are in use at the same time, the pressure diminishes but not the temperature, where hot water from the tankless coil of the furnace would go cold in no time with two sources in use.

I'm sold on this unit, and I will recommend it to anyone where electric tankless water heating would be a similar benefit.

Doug

[Ana]

I have been using the Titan tankless water heater brand for many years and have found it to be a great product. The gave a new one that is for colder climates now but living in Mobile, AL the standard one if fine.

[Craig]

After 8 months of regular use, we started getting code 12 errors on our Rannai tankless water heater if we tried to use hot water. The water would stay cold and the thermostat would beep until we shut off the hot water on the faucet. We had the natural gas regulator replaced, but it continued. The plumbers replaced the unit and 85 with even a better 95, but it still happens. We have to reset the circuit breaker to have it work.

Whats going on???!!!! My wife is tired of having 'surprises'. Me too.

[Ellen]

Waited and waited for your report with much anticipation because I live in an all electric community in the Northeast and need to replace a 1990's 50 gallon water heater that costs a minor fortune to run and is starting to rust. There are not too many plumbers or electrician who have expertise in this new technology, so I had hoped to receive an unbiased report from CR.to help me make a decision on the change I will have to make soon.

You can't imagine my disappointment when I read your article to find that you simply dismissed the electric option out of hand. For two people living in a townhouse where there is no gas service and no oil or propane, it would have helped to have some unbiased opinions relative to electric tanks vs. electric tankless hot water heaters.

I understand that a recirculating pump can mitigate the problems with water temperature fluctuations.

Also, it would have been good to know if the calcium buildup is a problem in all types of systems or just gas systems.

For an electric tank, which you didn't compare, would a timer on the electric service panel reduce the electric use enough to make an efficient electric tank as economical run as a tankless heater?

Thank you for trying, but there are still lots of us who don't use gas appliances and have to find alternatives.

[bill]

We have a Takagi Jr gas HW heater in our CT house (1-1/2 baths), 3-4 people and it works great. My gas bills went down a lot after switching to tankless, takes a little longer for hot water to come out of faucet, but its better than having and old water heater corrode out and leak into your basement w/o warning. Been working fine for 3 years without any problems

[Janis Cramer]

Bought a GWH 425 EF Bosch. It is a contractors model which has stronger and better parts to last longer than the retail model. It is still ordered from Bosch.
Go to "Ecoairandwater.com" Got it at a wholesale price. Our house has dishwasher, clothes washer, shower and runs fine with two running at same time. Very happy with this model. A lot of people complain about issues because it takes some homework to understant the units and the best way to put one in. I suggest if you know someone with one to ask to borrow their user manual to read first how to install correctly. You can also look at the manual online "Bosch.com" Call Bosch and they will explain the contractors model vs the retail model. Correct installation is what will give you years of enjoyment which includes a much lower gas bill.

[Mary]

I have a Bosch tankless water heater in my home. I do not know the model number. I had it installed at the recommendation of the city after an ice storm that put the power out of our neighborhood for 2 weeks, which then also caused heavy flooding in my basement. I was perplexed as to why my tankless water heater fluctuated from scorching hot to icy cold while I was in the shower (10 minutes). I discovered that when I turned on the bathroom sink faucet to hot at the same time and kept it running, I could keep the shower water temperature consistent with no fluctuation. If I turned the sink faucet off, the shower water would then become icy cold.

[Sandy Galloway]

Has anyone used an American Tankless Electric Heater? It is manufactured in the USA and uses a no flow switch. It's a bit pricey but if it works it may be worth it.