Tankless water heater recall

If you are among the increasing number of people using a tankless water heater at your home, check your model to ensure you’re not facing a potential carbon-monoxide problem.

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission on February 20, 2007, announced a recall of 42,200 Power Vent 199,900-Btu-per-hour tankless water heaters because of the risk of carbon-monoxide poisoning. The CPSC says you should stop using your unit immediately. The water heaters ($800 to $1,300) were sold between May 2004 and December 2006 under the Paloma, Rheem, Rheem-Ruud, and Richmond brand names.

Pieces inside the water heater can move around during transport, causing an air-filter door switch to malfunction, according to the CPSC. If the switch fails and the door cannot close properly, dust and lint can accumulate and lead to a CO-poisoning hazard. As of the recall date, no injuries had been reported.

For more information and to find the model number of recalled units, contact Rheem at 866-369-4786 (8 a.m. to 8 p.m. ET Monday through Friday; 10 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. ET on weekends) or go to www.tankless-recall.com. The company will repair your water heater at no charge.—Mitch Lipka

Essential information: Read  “Protect yourself against carbon-monoxide poisoning” for expert tips on avoiding CO poisoning. Also see our report on CO detectors and our exclusive interactive on smoke detectors. (Both are available to subscribers.)

Comments

[Dave Murray]

I came across the information covering the recall of tankless hot water heaters. I also saw your comments in the article covering how to select a hot water heater replacement(02/05). Basically, you were negative on the idea of replacing hot water heater tanks with tankless heaters because of the period of time required to recoup the additional costs. You estimated that the energy consumed by a tankless heater would be roughly one-half in comparison to a tank heater. Wouldn't you think that it is time to reconsider your position given the potential for energy savings and your current efforts to encourage buying green?
I was researching the topic of tankless hot water heaters which, I am led to believe, have been used extensively in Europe and elsewhere around the world for twenty or more years. I have spoken with two plumbers about the possibility of replacing my hot water heater tanks with tankless heaters. In both instances, the plumbers were very negative about the idea of using tankless heaters. One plumber suggested that I would need multiple heaters in order to assure an adequate supply of hot water. On the other hand, my daughter who has managed a fast food franchise location told me that tankless heaters were used exclusively at the franchise retail locations and that the tankless heaters proved to be reliable and provided more that enough hot water. Needless to say, the existance of conflicting informatipn has served to be very confusing. I would like to know if you have any intention of revisiting the issue of tank vs. tankless and, if so, would you consider evaluating the various tankless products available in the marketplace? I noticed that your February, 2005 article did not rank any hot water heater brands on the basis of performance. Was that because all tank heaters are basically the same?
David H Murray
Arlington Heights, IL

[Mike Wehrenberg]

I have been using a model 220 electric tankless water heater from SETS Systems in Miami FL (www.sets-systems.com) for over 4 years. This fall the closed loop control system began overshooting and undershooting the temperature of the hot water to the point of taking a shower or bath unbearable. I emailed SETS three times over the course of 30 days asking for advice and help on what to do to repair or tune the unit. The first reply indicated that, without proof of purchase (after a month of emailing), they did not offer any support or service on the unit. I indicated that I was not yet making a warranty claim just asking for any advice to tune the unit or upgrade its controls to a digital system (rather than the analog system originally installed). I also asked them to search their records for my name on the serial number that I purchased in the fall of 2002. I got the same reply. Their records did not find me as the purchaser and they did not offer any technical support or advice without proof of purchase. This was extremely frustrating....to the point I actually bought a digital unit from American Tankless Water Heaters. The new unit has digital controls and works very well. While I am a fan of tankless water heaters, I would NOT buy or use SETS as a brand to buy. The inability to provide support and advice as well as keep accurate sales records was inexcusable.

[Donovan Smith]

Mike,

Good luck with your American Tankless Hot Water System. I purchased the model 280 in September of 2007 for our newly constructed house. We had it installed in November of 2007, right before we moved in. By the second day, we had problems with our unit. We no longer got hot water. I called their service department, and spoke with somebody named "Junior", who talked me through reseting the system. This worked for two more days, then the same problem (no hot water) occurred. Again, I called their service department. This time "Junior" had me take off the cover of the unit and read the serial number from the three thermostats. After reading the serial number to "Junior", he informed me that these thermostats are defective and have been recalled. It appears I was knowingly sold a defective unit. So "Junior" asked for my name and address and told me he was going to overnight the correct thermostats to me. This was on November 19, 2007. As of today (January 7, 2007), I have not received them. I suppose I should have asked "Junior" which overnight he was going to send them. I have called their service department numerous times, but all of my messages have gone unanswered. My most recent contact with them was today. The lady took my name, said she would go personally to get "Junior", put me on hold for a minute and a half, then came back and told me that "Junior" was not in. Once again, I left my name and telephone number. This was a little over an hour ago. Nobody has called me back yet. By the way, if your thermostats serial number starts with M-40 or M-50, you too were sold a knowingly defective unit.

[Donovan Smith]

Mike,

Good luck with your American Tankless Hot Water System. I purchased the model 280 in September of 2007 for our newly constructed house. We had it installed in November of 2007, right before we moved in. By the second day, we had problems with our unit. We no longer got hot water. I called their service department, and spoke with somebody named "Junior", who talked me through reseting the system. This worked for two more days, then the same problem (no hot water) occurred. Again, I called their service department. This time "Junior" had me take off the cover of the unit and read the serial number from the three thermostats. After reading the serial number to "Junior", he informed me that these thermostats are defective and have been recalled. It appears I was knowingly sold a defective unit. So "Junior" asked for my name and address and told me he was going to overnight the correct thermostats to me. This was on November 19, 2007. As of today (January 7, 2007), I have not received them. I suppose I should have asked "Junior" which overnight he was going to send them. I have called their service department numerous times, but all of my messages have gone unanswered. My most recent contact with them was today. The lady took my name, said she would go personally to get "Junior", put me on hold for a minute and a half, then came back and told me that "Junior" was not in. Once again, I left my name and telephone number. This was a little over an hour ago. Nobody has called me back yet. By the way, if your thermostats serial number starts with M-40 or M-50, you too were sold a knowingly defective unit.

[Water Heater]

Does anyone know of any good water heater brand to recommend? Currently looking for a new water heater to replace my old one

[c0xr]

I agree with Mike above. I love tankless water heaters. we originally put in a Seisco when we built in 2003. Every year the contacts corroded and the heater failed, inevitably at Christmas when you don't want a cold shower. They were good about sending replacements at no charge but it got old the third year in a row.

So we changed to Bosch AE-7.2 PowerStar Electric Tankless Water Heater 7.2-6.0 kW. We bought it on ebay after researching it online. But our plumber refused to install as the lines inside were 1/4" and county code requires 1/2" AND he said it would not heat fast enough for us. The seller finally gave 75% of our $ back even after we provided county requirements. He said the county ok'd installing them in hotel rooms beachside-but they are not handling a 2500sf home!

Then we tried a SETS tankless water heater. This one the plumber did install even tho we had to move water lines due to the water entering the sides of the system instead of the top. Their advertising says "no scalding" but it does. Email correspondence to their support team resulted in the advice to "remove the antiscald device". We were not comfortable with that solution and returned the unit. after much correspondence, they reimbursed us the price of the unit, but not the $700 for the plumber and electrician to install and remove that unit and install another Seisco. They have finally changed the contracts so they don't corrode.

P.S. every time we turn on the hot water, it causes the lights to flicker just a little. only noticable at night but still irritating. i would suggest a gas heater to avoid this problem. my sister has a Rinnai and it works great!

[Mick Joplin]

I recently insalled a propane tankless water heaterfrom Ameri-brand products. Problems from day one. I had a difficult time getting it to turn, the only way to make that work is to crank up the water volum and the gas. Also the water goes from scalding to cold and back, makes for uncomfortable shower. Any thoughts put there?

[Jim Boyachek]

This is crazy. Donovan Smith - I can totally relate. We are going through the exact issues you were/are. We have been in contact with Junior a few times now, but the unit is still giving us problems. I bought it for a new house also. Where do you stand on this now? Is it fixed or did you go another route? I am really frustrated over this.

[Gary]

I am looking into the idea of replacing my 13 year old tank system with a tankless system. Has anyone heard anything about Rannai systems.

Also has anyone ever though of using one of these systems for heating the house as well. They also have a new system for hot air. I however, have baseboard heat so I was thinking of heating the house as well as the domestic hot water with the same unit if possible.

My one concern is that the domestic water does not need to be set at the same temp as for heating the house so I don't know if I might need 2 seperate systems or not.

My house is small approx 1200sf and I also have a pellet stove that works great.

My furnace is the original with the house that was built in the fifties. So I know I will have to replace that soon as well.

I am currently using oil and would love to get away from that. My last delivery was $4.20 a gallon. 135 gallon costing $567.00 If my tank was emty it would cost me over $1000.00 to fill it this is getting crazy.

Gary
Norwalk, CT

[Janice]

Gary,
Your house & system sound just like mine. I'm going through the same dilemmas - replacing a water heater and probably the oil hot water furnace next year or two. What progress have you made?
Janice

[Jacki]

Hi, I live in Canada and I have had a SETS unit for 2 years and recently the circuit breaker blew. It is the 40 40 quad breaker made by Siesons and I can't buy one any where in Canada and Siesons USA won't return my call. Does anyone know where I can get one. It has been 2 months without hot water.

[di]

I am considering replacing my 40 gallon gas water heater with a tankless one by Bosch gwh-635-es. The Bosch website sizing guide indicated we could use a smaller unit than this one, but I was more comfortable with a larger GPM@90ºrise. Does anyone have any experience with the Bosch Pro-Tankless series? We have very hard city water, and this does concern me with regards to the life expectancy of the tankless unit.

[Mikel Wixson]

Mike & Donavan
Well I was just getting ready to call American Tankless tomorrow and order one of their units.
But now I am not so sure after reading a some of the comments on them and "Junior."
I do have to use an electric unit. Are there any other suggestions? American offers a lifetime warranty, that would lead one to think that their quality would be excellent...
Do you still feel the same about them or have they corrected the problems you were having?
Any other help from out there would be appreciated.

[John]

I too am interested in replacing a gas water heater with a Rannai unit, but must admit, I'm having second thoughts after reading all the comments. Does anyone have experience with these units? My home is in Breckenridge.

[Chris]

Does anyone have anything good to report about electric tankless water heaters? Is there a brand you'd recommend? I'm very interested, especially in the electrics, but want to have some concrete info before buying. Thanks.

[Sherman]

Wow! Tankless sure sounded like a good idea and I have to replace a 12 year-old water heater very soon. I ask a similar question to Chris...Given the opportunity to make the decision for a water heater, would you still get the tankless design?

[Lise Rheault]

My gas water heater is 16 years old and 2 home insurance companies have suggested that I replace it before it starts leaking. I would love the extra space which a tankless heater would create in my basement laundry room.
However, after reading all comments on this blog I am seriously having 2nd thoughts.
Can someone recommend a reliable one??
I live in Ottawa, Canada.

[Joseph Beal]

I can recommend Rinnai tankless water heaters. We live in Australia, and nearly every home has one here. They work great, and are very reliable. No problem providing enough hot water for three bathrooms. Here, they install them outside, but in a colder climate it will probably have to be installed inside and vented.

[Grant Benson]

I have owned several electric tankless water heaters. I am sad to say that I went through several bad experiences before I found a brand that actually lived up to the manufacturer's claims. I tried SETS, Envirotech, Seisco, and American Tankless - all of which failed miserably in my opinion. Despite the seemingly lengthy warranties offered by some of these companies, getting technical support was nothing short of a nightmare. Just goes to show that a warranty is only as good as the company behind it. After such a terrible experience, even though I believed strongly in the concept, I was reluctant to try another unit. I convinced myself to try a unit made in Germany called Stiebel Eltron Tempra 24 thinking that Europe has been using this technology for much longer than us in North America. It truly puts the other units I tried to shame! You can tell just from looking at it that it is much better in terms of engineering, manufacturing, and construction. And best of all, IT WORKS! It truly works! It even automatically adjusts power when the flow rate changes so it can keep a more precise temperature, just as the manufacturer claims. Despite the claims of the other manufacturers that I tried that their models would do this, in reality none of them did it well and some couldn't do this at all. I would highly recommend the Stiebel Eltron Tempra to anyone looking for an electric tankless.

For those looking for a gas tankless, be very careful to look at the installation costs! I was leaning in this direction at first but electric made a lot more sense due to the much, much cheaper initial cost and installation. Given that tankless heaters are a long-term investment (or should be anyway), the price of oil and gas in the future also worried me. While electricity prices will certainly rise too, historically they have risen much slower and at least they are a bit more predictable.

[Russ Fish]

I had a SETS System model 280 installed on 1/21/08. Since then hot water has become my nightmare. The water temp would fluctuate between 90 and 120+ degrees. After talking with SETS tech (David) and installing 2 more pieces of non-SETS equipment at a cost of about $700.00 (pressure control valve and a water thermostat control valve) Things seem to be improving then while showering the water went cold. Upon inspection, one of the circuit breakers had flipped off. When I turned it back on, I got a flash of light, a loud popping sound and water started to spray everywhere. SETS said they would send me their new updated version and I was without hot water for 6 days. Got the new unit installed and in less than 30 days it developed a leak and quit producing hot water. On 6/26/08 SETS general manager told me he would send me out a new unit by priority mail. It is now 7/4/08 and I have not received the unit yet. The bigger shocker is when I called on 6/30/08 to see why I hadn’t received my new unit yet I was told SETS was no longer in business and Hubbell Heaters, Inc. had brought the assets but not the liabilities. In other words the lifetime warranty was gone and any support was at the option of Hubbell Heaters. I am now 9 days and counting without hot water. My advise is to stay-a-way from anything with SETS or Hubbell on them if it is related to a Tankless Hot Water Heater. Hubbell is using the same technology as SETS and you will get the same product with a much lesser warranty plus costly service calls by your local electrician. I am retuning to a high efficiency tank system after a $2000+ lesson in “BEING GREEN ISN’T EASY.”

[charlie]

Does anyone know if the Rannai gas tankless water heater with the new exhaust venting system can be installed/connected to an exhaust vent that was previously used for a regular tank style gas water heater? The exhaust vent is sent-in about one foot from all adjacent walls(up through the ceiling in a garage).

[Bayboy]

I have researched electric tankless for the past three years, but have not yet purchased because I do not have to install at this moment. I thought I would give the industry some time to improve. I read the comments about SETS and American Tankless Waterheater and can say that both of these companies are WORTHLESS. As a matter of fact, the original founder of SETS (I think his name is Carlos Caberra) many years ago in Miami had a long history of product and customer service issues. There were 28 major complaints made to the BBB of South Florida about SETS over a three year period. Caberra sold his interest to his partners and went off to start another company -- you guessed it, American Tankless Waterheater! The same technology (although slightly updated from the original SETS), the same business philosophy, the same lack of customer support and poor business practices. The literature sounds great, especially the low flow switch technology, but I would highly recommend staying away from these companies. There will be nothing but headaches and frustration! I am glad I did not purchase from them. But now I am back in the market for an electric tankless and still do not know which company offers good product performance and customer service.

[escondave]

From everything I've read here, I think I would look at Stiebel and/or Bosch only. We recently bought a Bosch dishwasher, and I had to gulp at the price, but now I think I was pretty smart. The thing is just great. I would appreciate hearing from others who have either of those brands. And...does anyone have a thought about using a tankless electric in conjunction with a solar storage tank?

[m. gregory]

I have had a Takagi for about a year and I love it. Before that, I had a French brand--can't remember the name, but it was taken over by Bosch--and I was very happy with that one also. The service was great, even though it did require some new plumbing lines to install originally.
Here's where I got my information: They were wonderful.
Robert Schmid

Customer Support

TAKAGI - USA

5 Whatney, Irvine CA 92618

#(949) 770-7171 ext:2127

[Mike Strief]

Regarding experience with American Heat/American Tankless Water Heaters (attn: Donovan Smith, Jim Boyachek, Mikel Wixson).....

I purchased a model AH-27 (the biggest model) from American Tankless (ATWH) in March '08 for a new home I built. The unit was installed in June and failed to work properly from day one. I, like others posting to this message board, contacted ATWH technical support and eventually found myself talking to a guy named Junior. I've since learned that Junior is "Carlos Cabrera, Jr" - Son of the owner of ATWH (from what I'm told). When I described the symptoms, Junior concluded that the flow sensor mechanism was clogged and instructed me on how to repair it. I had a plumber perform this and as he was removing the part, it broke. Junior said he would send me a new one. Several days passed and it never arrived. I bagan the phone call to both the company and Junior's cell phone. Messages were never returned. I finally connected with Junior and requested that he ship another part overnight and I offered to pay the shipping. It took 2 days for him to get it shipped, I got the new part installed, and it only resolved part of the problem.

I contacted Junior again and he concluded that the main circuit board must be defective and that he would ship one to me immediately and suggested that I could easily install it myself. Several days passed and no part arrived.

I contacted the company and demanded to speak to a manager/owner and was directed to Carlos Cabrera (Sr.). Carlos agreed to ship me a brand new unit. I had it installed July 18th and it still doesn't work as advertised. The water temp varies from the high set point down to a luke-warm flow. And when demand increases for 2 fixtures, or if I try to fill a whirlpool tub with a high flow rate, the unit can't keep up at all.

At this point I'm furious. ATWH refuses to refund my money because I purchased the unit > 30 days ago. Now they are trying to convince me that the problem isn't the water heater, but rather the electrical supply.

At this point, I'm trying to figure out how to cut my losses. I've already incurred the expense of upgrading to 400amp servise to my home, charges from plumbers to repair/install parts that sometimes never arrive, and now I will need to pay an electrician to performa battery of tests to determine if the unit is powered correctly. My gut is telling me that I'm going to have to eat all of this cost and buy a standard (tank) electric water heater. The experience has been a nightmare and I would never recommend this company. Not sure I'd even recommend any type of electric tankless water heater at this point. I'm also trying to figure out if I have any grounds for legal action against this company - I suspect not.

My question to Donovan and Jim... Have either of you had any resolution? If so, how?