DTV coupons: Concerns raised about the program

Did you apply for your two $40 DTV coupon from the NTIA (National Telecommunications and Information Administration)? Have you gotten them yet, or maybe the clearly-marked envelopes containing the $40 debit cards somehow got "lost" in the mail? Or maybe you were denied because of some address snafu?

Or perhaps you got them—but the $40 discount cards expired before you could use them?

Those are the common complaints readers have raised in comments on blog posts regarding the digital TV transition, DTV coupons and digital converter boxes. At a Congressional hearing this week, our parent company, Consumers Union, raised another, broader concern about the coupon program which was meant to offset the set-top converter boxes that older analog TV will need to use after February 2009.)

Testifying before the Telecommunications and Commerce committees, Chris Murray, CU's Senior Counsel, was pleased to note that the program has mailed some 25 million coupons to date, with 10 million redeemed. But he worried that "the program will quickly find that more consumers want coupons than Commerce can commit to under the present budget. At some point before February, the coupon program will perhaps have to turn away (or delay sending coupons to) some number of citizens. We hope to be proved wrong, but believe policymakers should prepare for this contingency. Consumers were promised that the cost of the DTV transition wouldn't be on their dime."

As Murray noted, by one government estimate, more than 49 percent of coupons now issued have been redeemed. The NTIA has proposed taking $7 million from other, unused funds to cover administrative costs needed to redistribute unredeemed and expired coupons.

While that request seems like a good thing, don't hold your breath. According to a blog post by industry magazine Broadcasting & Cable, the NTIA most likely won't be able to act fast on solving consumers' issues with missing or expired coupons.

The head of the National Telecommunications and Information Administration told Congress the NTIA still does not have the inclination or authority to reissue digital-TV-to-analog converter-box-subsidy coupons to households that did not or could not redeem them before the 90-day expiration date.

How's the DTV transition going for you? Feel free to voice your thoughts here or on HearUsNow.org.

—Paul Eng

Comments

[Mike]

You guys are going to love this link. Its the subcommitte minutes on the digital transition expectations. You'll have to click on the right link of record #1 to view it.

http://catalog.gpo.gov/F/BVCRMS8KVSTMKQC692UNA5NKL9LCK8AVVP1EQJRM1E6LXPSB6J-23841?func=find-acc&acc_sequence=005992364

They were told that there was 69 million TV's out there that were over the air only, but the FCC told them to expect only 1/4 to want coupons. God knows why they thought 3/4 of them would prefer to have no TV. To make a long story short, the Dems wanted the full sale proceeds, estimated at $10 billion to go to paying for the conversion boxes and allowing the first responders to use the airwaves that the entire bill was meant to create. However, the Republicans wanted to siphon 3/4 of it to cover the Bush tax cuts and complained that the $1.5 billion they alloted to conversion boxes was already way more than they would ever need. The concerns in Representative's Green's Opening Statement proved to be 100% accurate.

[Jeff]

I ordered my coupons last November, and never received them. Up until recently I just assumed they took forever to get this processed, like all bureaucratic things are. I guess they were supposed to mail in December. I tried applying again and it said I already received as many coupons as I am allowed...

How can our government expect to run a country when it can't even get a simple coupon right?

[tekwyzrd]

I am tired of reading "people who let the coupons expire have no one to blame but themselves" I applied for coupons in Jan 2008 and received them in April 2008. After reading reviews of the boxes available I found that every model available had some major problem. By the time decent boxes were available the coupons were expired.

[everett whitney]

TO: Douglas - 15 Feb - " $50 first, then another $150?"

Today IS the beginning of the "analog shut down" at many TV Stations, in spite of the so-called 12 June Delay - - - so, the "fun" actually begins!

Since there now is NOT a single, at Midnight 100 % switch for all 48 states, all of us w/ antennas will need to re-scan periodically, as stations begin to alter their channel / sub-channel line ups.

This adding channels feature was NOT well-planned in many federal coupon Converters . . . . before very long, there will be a noticeable dissatisfaction with Converters for this and the overall lack of any meaningful Customer Service / (1) year Warranty, etc..

Your $200 would have gone far toward the outright purchase of a new, proper Digital TV - that's what is going to be the outcome eventually!

Top Tier sets have been on sale since 'Black Friday' for $649-$699.

[Douglas Rosenzweig]

I purchased two converter boxes through the coupon program, and went to a reputable shop to by them. They have both failed and been replaced by the manufacturer, and both give mediocre performance. Had I bought them in a normal way, I would have requested my money back by now, but am stuck with them and the $50 expense above and beyond the coupons that I spent to get them. I will end up spending about $150 more to get two better quality models, and I feel that the manufacturer took advantage of the coupon program to put out mediocre products that they are not particularly responsible for. My $80 of coupons are unrecoverable by me.

[mike]

have you ever tried to get a reply for expired coupons of which the only suitable box (echo star) was unavailable in time? you fill out a form and get back "our records show you were sent coupons already". there is no one to communicate with. worse, there is no one posting answers on faq regarding these common complaints. they got 19B for the released spectrum lease this go around and offered compensation for the change over of less than 1/19 of that. It is the public airwaves they monetized the least they could do is to allocate up to 19B for the coupons and relegate their greed to making money on the subsequent year licenses. It's more of that crony martin's old tricks again.

[Roger]

I ordered converter box coupons as soon as they were available. When I got them none of the stores locally had the boxes. I had to go overseas for a time and when I got back the stores still didn’t have them and my coupons expired! I contacted the DTV agency and was informed that new ones WOULD not be issued, despite the fact that I still had the coupons to turn in for new ones if required. My Congressman also tried to get replacements and was also told NO! They would not issue replacements to me.

This change to DTV has been so poorly administered its pathetic!
Over 50% of the coupons issued have expired without redemption! All Congress needs to do is to advise stores to ignore the original date and fill the order!
Why on earth did they put a 90 day expiry date on them in the first place.
No we aren’t ready for the switch and need more time for people to get the converters!
Today I read that the funding has run out, Well let them use the money they are getting from the sale of the airwaves.
I have HDTV in most of the house but I have two analog sets in great condition for the bedroom and my workshop. I don’t want to just toss them away. If I have to, I will shell out for at least one converter box but cant help but conclude out government agencies are went in to this blind and are still blind! ( or dumb).

[John]

I have yet to hear from all the ads on television one good reason why I need to make this change. Broadband in rural areas, where I live is a nice idea but it is not going to happen by doing this. Some companies are trying to deliver on them here and the customers are frustrated no end. The system isn't built yet and new airwaves in February are not going to change any of that. I'm told I will get a better picture or to read the message on the bottom of the page, that doesn't make any difference to me. I have lost access to stations, though I have a high tower. I can't get cable tv - unless I am willing to pay another $6000 because of my long driveway, they won't even talk to me. I don't want Direct tv, that's asking me to add another expense I can't and don't want to afford.

More importantly, where does my neighbor who does not have enough money to pay for food, heat and medicine even find the extra $20 for this box even if she had a card? If she/he is homebound, how does she/he even get to a store? And who is going to help her install it? In this economic environment, what are you thinking? What ever happened to the free market to change this? I understand the change has been desired for years, yet analog tvs were sold until last year. DUH Thousands of tvs were sold in the last five years that now require this mess. And to tell us that there are cable tv companies who haven't had to make the change just adds insult to injury. Where does my neighbor who is losing his home going to find money to pay for new cable/direct tv to accommodate someone who can afford broadband?

The messages are unclear whether one needs a box for each tv or for the house. How do you hook this up to the portable tv that goes to the game, so someone has to buy one of those as well? I watched several shows where the "experts" were answering call in questions. Not one question was answered without an additional cost to the consumer. Again, where do people find the money to buy all the accessories when the box doesn't work as promised?

Lastly, as my experience with almost every recent electronic item I've bought in the last few years, the directions are abysmal. I'm usually pretty good, but hooking this up was the worst experience I ever had. My electronic savvy neighbor couldn't do it either. And what a joke for the uninitiated who want to tape programs. That wasn't even acknowledged in the package I bought.

[Mike (Mr. FCC)]

Yes it is true. The NTIA ran out of money, but before you all start blaming them (or me) let me explain what happened, and what's next. Way back when the NTIA was requesting funding for this program, they originally asked for $3 Billion, but was only given 1.3 Billion. So, now that the money is gone what happens. Remember when I said that unused/expired coupons were re-issued? Well that is exactly what's happening, hence the waiting list. As a coupon expires, a new one is sent to those on the list. Not the best plan, but still better than nothing. The NTIA Director has requested Congress release more money ASAP, so those that still need coupons can get them. So, call your Congressman and tell them to give the NTIA more money (Like you did when you told Congress not to give NTIA $3 billion it asked for originally, (yes, that's what happened folks.)) Also, remember when I discussed box returns to retailers? This is what is required of retailers by law "The Returns process reports the coupon portion (up to $40) of the funds in every return, with the money sent back to the U.S. Treasury. These funds are credited back to the Coupon Program, so that unused Program funds are available for reuse." So that money goes back to the program too. Again, not the best solution, but a temporary stay at best.
For Davepet: Thanks for the info, it does help when a "success story" gets out. For instance, I installed a box I got from Best Buy (Insignia) in my daughter's room, and using 35 year old rabbit ears and an adapter, I got 30 channels, of course some better than others, but I found by just swinging the antenna 10 degrees the weak stations cleared right up, and we are 25 miles from the nearest transmitter. So I can say it works and I am satisfied. You are in a very unique situation, and I am glad you took the time to point out your experiences, and especially the antennas. I have been saying all along the antenna is the key.
For Beth: Don't give up yet. I cannot say one way or the other if you will ever get a coupon, I hope you do, if not you just may have to front the money, but still consider a $60 converter box is still better than a $500 TV, don't you think?
I suggest you call your local TV station and ask if they are aware of any grant programs in your area. Some locales have initiated a grants program with money from private sources to give boxes to those that absolutely cannot afford them.
Otherwise, you all must remember that for over a year the word has been to get your coupons, buy your box. If you just waited until the last minute (like we as a culture a prone to do) you might just be out of luck. Sorry. If you want to call and complain, call your Congress person, and tell them to give NTIA more money. Otherwise, suck it up and buy a box on your own, buy a new TV, subscribe to pay service, or go without. Harsh, yes, cruel, perhaps, but the absolute truth.
For Everett: thanks for having my back ;-) The box "ui" was talking about was only available from Direct TV, and they pushed the release date on it back by 3 months. So, he should have considered on of the 250 boxes that were available. Thanks again.

[Davepet]

I applied for my coupons early & got them after quite a wait. The coupon program worked fine for me & 3 other people I know. I know of one person who hasn't gotten his coupons.

Currantly I have two boxes & have experimented with them. I'm `70 miles from the transmitter towers, but I'm also a mile high up in the mountains, so I get mostly OK analog signals with a rooftop, middle of the line broadband antenna & an amp. Some stations do fade in & out at times.

With the digital box & the same antenna/amp, the picture is vastly clearer & more detailed, but only when it's working well. Sometimes it drops out completely. One station I don't get any analog signals from is one of the best on digital. Go figure.

I suspect that if you currently get good UHF analog reception, you will likely have no trouble with digital, just hook the box up & you're set.

If your UHF reception is spotty, start antenna shopping. If you already have the best UHF antenna out there & still don't have good reception, you will probably need a satellite system. ( I assume cable isn't an option if you are that far out, since it isn't here).

Antennaweb offers useful info, but not always accurate. It tells me I can get only two stations here & I currently get about 15, some better than ohthers. One of the stations it tells me I can get is one that is located on the other side of a 8000' mountain range from here.Pretty sure that's not gonna happen.

[beth]

Apparently there is no more money.

I applied for coupons today and my app was accepted, but they have no more funding for coupons. Until/unless they get more, I am on my own. I will give up the five channels that I get over the air now. Too bad.

Beth

[everett whitney]

TO - ui - " Mr. fcc - fix this ....!"

Neither he nor can anybody else ! IF you want all the features of the newest, associated Receiver/Recorders with dual tuners, hard drive recorders, multiple channels simultaneously as well as multiple recording start times, full programing guides, etc., , get that .... it's easy & does exist at all local cable offices / satellite companies or www.tivo.com

However, ..... the federal converter program IS only for getting ONE channel to show on a Picture tube set that uses O.T.A. signals. Nothing as involved / elaborate as you propose / prefer.

[ui]

mr fcc,

you encouraged consumers to apply early. I did. got my coupons but the box I needed (echostar) was unavailable. have you addressed the needs of those who record multiple programs unattended per day? Now the ecouraged early adopters have useless coupons. How about fixing the situation

[everett whitney]

MIKE - (Mr. FCC ) - " still LOTS TO DO before Feb...."

Hello & thanks ... I used to be an Engineer for many years with a major corporation & realize only too well how the many layers of "bosses" etc., can slow things down and even keep important ones from ever happening !

One of your points with which I absolutely agree IS the simple fact that a printed "FACT SHEET" should have been required within each / every federal coupon envelope or the Converters themselves about 25 year old analog only "V" rabbit ears NOT going to "work" at all w/ digital... excluding Chicago, NYC, etc.. A "picture" on the reverse side would have shown the needed bow tie and / or loop section.

Have a Merry Christmas !
everett

[everett whitney]

TO: Ed - 21 Dec - " USED P.O. # ....?"

That's not accepted ... apply again, using one of your friends, relatives, your barber, etc., that will NOT be using their allocation of two .... yours will never show !

Sorry - but - this HAS been very much debated & postponed since the beginning in early '96-'98 time frame .... some of the ~15 Million now using ONLY antenna TV will be left out ! That's the fact of digital signals ... consider the companion, new, low or limited analog cable service ... about (20) channels for $11.75/mo --- Much less costly than a commercially-installed outside antenna & good thru 2012, NOT just next Feb.! Will operate all the picture tube sets within the home + all the VCRs , etc., same as ever.

[Mr. FCC]

Thanks Everett for putting out good info. And you are spot on with the antenna issues. People like Chip need to realize that most stations are not putting the digital out at full power while they have an analog signal gong out at the same time. If you live in an area where you normally watch a 'fuzzy' analog picture, you probably will not get digital. With DTV, you either get it, or you don't. If someone lives in an area like this, you may have to think about cable/satellite. Yeah I know, not what you want to hear, but the sad truth. Read my other posts on reception issues and more info.

[Ed Mixon]

I tried to do the right thing,but like every other time you deal with the government I got screwed.The first time I appliede back in March they denied me because I have a PO box address.I appealed,but to this date I stil haven't recieved a coupon.I have gone back to DTV2009.gov several times and still they won't send me a coupon.I went to consumer reports and filed a complainent there,doubt that it will do any good. Our government has decided to do this change without any real thought behind the process.There should be a human being that I can talk to about this,but it is automated now so there is no recourse for me.

[Jim]

I got my coupons and converter boxes for $25 each out of pocket when all was said and done without any issues. The Insignia ones at Best Buy seem to work really well and have a great tuner. I have a 30 year old antenna on my roof that I thought was broken because my TV sets could only get 2 analog channels before and with lots of snow. I almost took it down, but when I hooked these converter boxes to it, I got all of the local stations that are 40 miles away.

I think the only problem with the coupons is when they are mailed, many people may confuse them with junk mail credit card offers and throw them out. However, people do have to blame themselves if they have received the coupons and they let them expire before buying the actual boxes. I mean the government cannot physically do everything for you, but they may try with this new administration.

At least the government is attempting to defray the transition costs a little and everyone should be taking advantage of it. Imagine paying $80 per converter box out of pocket or replacing all of your old TVs now with new HD TVs next year. That would be a significant cost over what these converter boxes cost with the program. So I don't think it's a bad deal and I'm glad the government is running this type of program and that it is available to everyone. Also, the picture and sound is better than what I get with cable TV...so I cannot complain.

[everett whitney]

TO: Chip - "Converter goes in / out ?"

Essentially ALL (99%) will need a better antenna system ... Never the very old, "V" dipole rabbit ear set top variety & seldom an indoor type!

Digital reception WILL be an entirely different endeavor than getting analog ever was ... Line-of-sight between the outside antenna & TV Towers will be interrupted by storms, leaves on trees, any taller structures in the path, airplanes landing / taking off from an airport, etc., ad infinitum !

www.antennaweb.org is a Must to start ... input ZIP, check 'digiat' - leave all else blank! Listed will be your available Channels, which reception Band(s) { Hi VHF or UHF } both today and after FEB, Compass headings, distance & by color-coding, what strength or "gain" the recommended antennas.

www.solidsignal.com is just 1 of very many that offer all major makers of them

[Chip]

I've had a similar experience to many others. Many months ago I applied for my coupon and got the confirmation number and date when it was schedule to be mailed. It never showed up. I tried again and didn't get that one either.

My DTV signal goes in an out. (With a DTV receiver I bought without a coupon.) When analog isn't getting a great signal I can still see and hear the TV show even if the reception isn't great. With DTV the picture and sound just completely go out. This is an improvement?

February 2009 may be when I stop watching TV altogether.

With all the ads I've seen about the transition, I'm surprised there haven't been a lot more stories about how poorly DTV works and how poorly the coupon program was executed. Sadly, this is all we can expect from our government these days.

[everett whitney]

TO: Dennis - 03 Dec - " Received Coupons 5 months Expired!"

See if other family members Not needing their two allocation will apply for / give those to you? Or, perhaps, your friends or co-workers? Recall, this is all over come the 31 March, so time IS of the essence, apart from no analog after mid Feb.

There is NO correlation between who requested these verses whom submits them @ a store.

Or, simply "give up" and take advantage of this terrible global economy .... Top Tier, legitimate HDTVs have been very plentiful & still are at $599-699 ... no Converter at all and infinitely-better displays in free HD!

[Dennis]

I just received my coupons for the digital convertor box through the mail on December 1, 2008. According to the coupons they were already expired in July 2008. I double checked the dates and tried to call the number on the letter. They do not take calls on the phone number given. You get a recorded message that says they are busy and they hang up. I went on the web site and whenever I try to get help all I can get is a pop up that says, "under no circumstances will new coupons be issued."

Is this another example of the efficient operation of another branch of government? It seems to me this is an example of planned obsolescence.

[Mike (Mr. FCC)]

Barry: Thanks, I hope I am doing some good. Digital is very, very different from analog, unfortunately the powers that be didn't have enough foresight to adequately explain the differences. Us technicians (I'm an electronics technician) have tried to explain how these things work, but, the people in charge are lawyers, not technicians. I.E. the FCC Chairman, and all the Commissioners are Lawyers, not one engineer on the staff. That has hindered our ability to do some things that us DTV people want to do. I'm not bashing lawyers, but their main concern is liability, not TV reception. Nuff said.
Donna: Re=apply for coupons, modify your address a little bit (See my other post) The system should accept your modified address, and send you coupons. Unfortunately the NTIA only has that one number, and I can tell you (I probably shouldn't) that there is not one living body on the other end. You can call the FCC, but our technicians will only refer you to the NTIA number.
Try applying again.
Everett: you are correct, the initial push was for EVERYBODY to get coupons, and as the program winds down, only those people who receive over-the-air TV will be eligible. I don't know why they did it that why,I think the pother way around would have been better, my opinion. And yes, they are sent in plain white envelopes, I think that was to deter theft since the coupons are not issued to one specific person. As for them getting lost in the mail, that is being looked into, don't be surprised if in the near future there are arrests for mail theft. (Conjecture, not fact).
Antennas: My area of specialty. Another interesting point, we told the powers-that-be about antennas and various antenna issues, but was dismissed. I have personally tested over 200 antennas of varying type, size, and manufacture. It all comes down to distance from the transmitter (power of course, but that will change). Digital is different as Barry has found out. You either get it or don't. Check out antennaweb.org, plug in your address, and it will tell you what stations are available, both analog and digital, what type of antenna you should use, where it should be pointed and has lots of useful information. Call the FCC 1-888-225-5322, ask for the antenna guide, it has some great info also. Anything else? Want to complain? See my other posts.

[everett whitney]

P.S. -- Donna - "How Many Coupons ...?"

As of Wed, 05 th .....

33.5 Million requested
31.9 Million mailed
10.5 Million expired w/o being used
Only 13.5 have been applied with 7.8 Million still "valid."

everett

[everett whitney]

TO: Donna - 07 Nov - "Need more telephone contacts ..?"

Very Bad, no doubt - BUT - you're only succeeding in elevating your own anxiety ! So many more { millions! } also never got their envelope in the mail, partially because it is / was Plainly marked ... Your Federal Coupons are enclosed ..!"

Might just as well enclosed $ 80 in cash !

No, those initial requests were NOT restricted to those only using O.T.A. signals ... just the opposite ! Everyone was allowed to get Coupons initially.

Your "opportunity" has come & gone now ... join those many millions same as yourself & now either buy local cable for their new, limited channel analog good til 2012 or buy outright new Converters, bearing in mind that most also find out soon that they also need new UHF Band antenna systems, too, for yet another cost!

COX = (24) channels @ $11,75 / Comcast = (20) in some markets = $11, etc..