DTV coupons: Concerns raised about the program

Did you apply for your two $40 DTV coupon from the NTIA (National Telecommunications and Information Administration)? Have you gotten them yet, or maybe the clearly-marked envelopes containing the $40 debit cards somehow got "lost" in the mail? Or maybe you were denied because of some address snafu?

Or perhaps you got them—but the $40 discount cards expired before you could use them?

Those are the common complaints readers have raised in comments on blog posts regarding the digital TV transition, DTV coupons and digital converter boxes. At a Congressional hearing this week, our parent company, Consumers Union, raised another, broader concern about the coupon program which was meant to offset the set-top converter boxes that older analog TV will need to use after February 2009.)

Testifying before the Telecommunications and Commerce committees, Chris Murray, CU's Senior Counsel, was pleased to note that the program has mailed some 25 million coupons to date, with 10 million redeemed. But he worried that "the program will quickly find that more consumers want coupons than Commerce can commit to under the present budget. At some point before February, the coupon program will perhaps have to turn away (or delay sending coupons to) some number of citizens. We hope to be proved wrong, but believe policymakers should prepare for this contingency. Consumers were promised that the cost of the DTV transition wouldn't be on their dime."

As Murray noted, by one government estimate, more than 49 percent of coupons now issued have been redeemed. The NTIA has proposed taking $7 million from other, unused funds to cover administrative costs needed to redistribute unredeemed and expired coupons.

While that request seems like a good thing, don't hold your breath. According to a blog post by industry magazine Broadcasting & Cable, the NTIA most likely won't be able to act fast on solving consumers' issues with missing or expired coupons.

The head of the National Telecommunications and Information Administration told Congress the NTIA still does not have the inclination or authority to reissue digital-TV-to-analog converter-box-subsidy coupons to households that did not or could not redeem them before the 90-day expiration date.

How's the DTV transition going for you? Feel free to voice your thoughts here or on HearUsNow.org.

—Paul Eng

Comments

[Mike (Mr. FCC)]

Barry: Thanks, I hope I am doing some good. Digital is very, very different from analog, unfortunately the powers that be didn't have enough foresight to adequately explain the differences. Us technicians (I'm an electronics technician) have tried to explain how these things work, but, the people in charge are lawyers, not technicians. I.E. the FCC Chairman, and all the Commissioners are Lawyers, not one engineer on the staff. That has hindered our ability to do some things that us DTV people want to do. I'm not bashing lawyers, but their main concern is liability, not TV reception. Nuff said.
Donna: Re=apply for coupons, modify your address a little bit (See my other post) The system should accept your modified address, and send you coupons. Unfortunately the NTIA only has that one number, and I can tell you (I probably shouldn't) that there is not one living body on the other end. You can call the FCC, but our technicians will only refer you to the NTIA number.
Try applying again.
Everett: you are correct, the initial push was for EVERYBODY to get coupons, and as the program winds down, only those people who receive over-the-air TV will be eligible. I don't know why they did it that why,I think the pother way around would have been better, my opinion. And yes, they are sent in plain white envelopes, I think that was to deter theft since the coupons are not issued to one specific person. As for them getting lost in the mail, that is being looked into, don't be surprised if in the near future there are arrests for mail theft. (Conjecture, not fact).
Antennas: My area of specialty. Another interesting point, we told the powers-that-be about antennas and various antenna issues, but was dismissed. I have personally tested over 200 antennas of varying type, size, and manufacture. It all comes down to distance from the transmitter (power of course, but that will change). Digital is different as Barry has found out. You either get it or don't. Check out antennaweb.org, plug in your address, and it will tell you what stations are available, both analog and digital, what type of antenna you should use, where it should be pointed and has lots of useful information. Call the FCC 1-888-225-5322, ask for the antenna guide, it has some great info also. Anything else? Want to complain? See my other posts.

[everett whitney]

P.S. -- Donna - "How Many Coupons ...?"

As of Wed, 05 th .....

33.5 Million requested
31.9 Million mailed
10.5 Million expired w/o being used
Only 13.5 have been applied with 7.8 Million still "valid."

everett

[everett whitney]

TO: Donna - 07 Nov - "Need more telephone contacts ..?"

Very Bad, no doubt - BUT - you're only succeeding in elevating your own anxiety ! So many more { millions! } also never got their envelope in the mail, partially because it is / was Plainly marked ... Your Federal Coupons are enclosed ..!"

Might just as well enclosed $ 80 in cash !

No, those initial requests were NOT restricted to those only using O.T.A. signals ... just the opposite ! Everyone was allowed to get Coupons initially.

Your "opportunity" has come & gone now ... join those many millions same as yourself & now either buy local cable for their new, limited channel analog good til 2012 or buy outright new Converters, bearing in mind that most also find out soon that they also need new UHF Band antenna systems, too, for yet another cost!

COX = (24) channels @ $11,75 / Comcast = (20) in some markets = $11, etc..

[Donna]

Glad I found this page! As with others, I ordered my coupons early to beat the rush. I did not see them, and I assumed (yeah, I know) they were held up. I finally checked the website, they replied they were sent and since it had been over 90 days, already cancelled. And I could not get replacements because their Customer Support was "prohibited by law from replacing your (my) coupons." I found a Letter from the House Sub Committee on Telecommunications and the Internet addressed to NTIAA asking about the "rule that NTIA adopted--which was not part of the statute that Congress enacted--that limits the number of coupons available to households with cable or satellite service?" It was dated 27 October 2008 and requested a response by 31 October 2008, I called and was informed that when the response was received it would be posted on their (the Committee on Energy and Commerce) website.
This was question #2 of 11. The 11th question asks "How many coupons does NTIA estimate, by percentage, are being lost in the mail nationally?" Can't wait to see that response.
Find the letter at; http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_110/110pr_telecom.shtml , scroll down to the letters, find the one dated 21 October 2008, (.pdf file) very interesting reading.
BTW, my understanding was these coupons were only to be made available to households getting their TV reception over-the-air exclusively, which is my situation exactly.
Also, the 1-888-DTV-2009 number is not taking calls today, much less complaints. I was directed to the website the first time and hung up on, then the computer recognized my number the second time and I was told the lines are tooo busy to take my call, please try back later.
Anyone have another phone number for me to call, an email addy for me to write to?
Does anyone even know who this 'Consumer Support Center, TV Converter Box Coupon Program" actually is? Is this part of the Contract that IBM was awarded, or are they just printing the coupons themselves?
Oh my aching head....

[Barry Smiraglia]

To Mike: I need to give you the thanks you deserve for handling the questions/complaints including mine. You gave some valuable insight into the program and continue to do so. For example: your recent post on the power level and testing changes that are going on may explain why on different days I get different stations (I have a box, need another). 'Autoscan' has become very familiar to me. I understand from my HD radio that if the signal isn't real strong then it's an either on or off (if weak) situation. It's the nature of digital, not just DTV. In my town it's $25 to throw out my tv, the box cost me $20, so I'd like to keep it in play. (when the box works the picture is fantastic)
Your posts are invaluable so please keep it up, it does help.

[Mike (Mr. FCC)]

John, you are absolutely correct. Most full power stations that are simulcasting digital and analog, are doing so with less than half power on the digital side. All full power broadcast stations transmit digital TV at their own discretion until Feb 17th. Many stations are still in the testing phase. After Feb 17th, all full power stations will transmit digital TV at their maximum allowable power. Low power stations DO NOT HAVE TO MAKE THE SWITCH TO DTV UNTIL sometime in 2010, but may do so earlier if they choose. Low-power television (LPTV) stations usually provide a locally-oriented or specialized television service in the communities they serve. These communities may be in rural areas or may be individual communities within larger urban areas. If someone lives in an area where they have both full power and low power stations, they should consider buying a DTV converter box with analog pass-through, and there are many out there that are coupon eligible. John, I don't know where you are located, and I assume you have a storefront?? Why not put up a few posters about DTV and have a few antenna guides on hand to help explain all this to your customers? If you want to be part of program and help out your community, call 1-888-225-5322, press '0' and tell the technician you want a DTV packet. They will send one out. Seems more people want to whine and complain rather than stepping up and helping out. Again, if you want to whine and complain, call your Congressman, make a complaint. It was Congress that started this whole thing, and as usual left a few underfunded agencies to deal with it. If there is anyone out there that wants to step up, take ownership and help out your community, call the number above, tell the technician you want a speaker to come and explain it, or you want publications to hand out (it's all free). Libraries, Fire Depts., Community Service Officers, anyone out there that has a community outreach program, I am offering an opportunity to help out YOUR community.

[john]

Iam in the TV repair business and have many customers that will not have TVafter the switch.They have the converter but with the switch from VHF to UHF THEY HAVE NO WAY TO GET WHAT THEY NEVER HAD ANY TROUBLE GETTING FROM THE START OF TV.
They will have no way of getting TV at all. Because of trees hills ect. they cannot get satellite and have no way to get cable.
Those that can get TV almost all have it cut out for hours a day. They have the best antennas and preamps but the stations need to at least double the power. Aone Db loss of signal is the difference between a perfect picture and none. That difference with analog is hard to notice.

[Mike (Mr. FCC)]

Ok..First off. I DID NOT START THIS PROGRAM, NOR DO I CONTROL IT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. I understand frustration, just don't take it out on me. I am actually trying to help and I'll try to answer your questions if I have enough space here.
If your coupons expired because you could not get a box (sold out), I don't have an answer for that. That is an NTIA issue, not the FCC. I do know that you are not alone, and it is being looked at. More to follow when I know more. If you have not received your coupons and have internet access (and you must since you asked your question here) go to www.dtv2009.gov and click on "Where are my coupons?" If you have your confirmation #, enter it and hit search. If not, check the box that says "Use my address", enter you info and hit search. It will tell you if they had been mailed out and when, and if they have been used. If they have been used and you did not receive/use them, call 1-888-DTV-2009 and file a complaint. That is the NTIA number, the agency in charge of the program. If the system says you were not approved you either: Called the number from a cell phone, you have to call from your home phone; you used a PO Box as an address, if this is the case, call/go online and use your physical house address; or you live in a multiple family dwelling (apartment building, etc.) that has only one address for the whole unit and somebody else already ordered coupons. If that is the case, order them online, and put in a slightly different address like "123 anystreet REAR #1" the system will ask if that is correct, say yes, it will ask again in a different way, say yes and it should accept your order. If not, call the number above. Returning your box: Someone stated that one box worked and one didn't. Not knowing enough about the way it was set up, the antenna it was connected to nor the type of TV, I can't be much help. However the issue with retailers: If you buy a $60 box and use a coupon, you pay $20. If you return the box you can't get the coupon back, and you only get your original $20 or store credit. If your bought 2 boxes and 1 worked, why didn't you just exchange it? It was probably an issue with the box, and an exchange would have worked just fine, and you have have 2 working boxes. Again, not knowing the circumstances under which you set up the second box, I have to assume it was an issue with the box itself. Now to get to Barry's questions. Ok. If a coupon is ordered and not used, that money goes back into the program, it is not wasted. If you got a bad box, and return it to get your $20 back, the retailer gets nothing, because the retailer got nothing in the first place. The retailers get reimbursed AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM when all the numbers are tallied, and they have to jump through hoops to prove they actually sold the number of boxes that match the number of coupons redeemed. For instance, Best Buy redeems 100 coupons, sells 100 boxes and 20 come back as bad, they get paid for 80. Barry, if you need 2 boxes, ask somebody who has cable/sat and doesn't need coupons, to order 2 coupons for you and you can get your boxes. Check out http://www.summitsource.com/ They have a good selection of boxes. The problem with big retailers (Walmart, Target, Best Buy) etc. is they will only carry 1 or 2 kinds. Search around, there are good boxes out there for minimal cost.
Ok, now the throwing away the analog TV. The FCC, the NTIA and the EPA have a recycling program in place for those that wish to toss their old TVs and buy new ones. The info can be found here
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/dtvrecycle.html Anything else? I think I covered it. If not call 1-888-225-5322 M-F 8-5 Eastern time. When the PBX system answers (yes I know, I hate them too) Press 1 for Eng (2 for Span) then press 3. This will take you directly to the DTV experts. They will answer your questions on just about anything DTV related that is under the FCC's purview, they will even walk you through setting up a new box. If your question is not, they will tell you whom to call and give you the number. I suggest you give them you name, number, address and email as they will have lots of good information to send you, they WILL NOT SEND IT without your permission. They have to ask if you want the info, if you say es they will either email or snail mail, your choice. If you do not want it, they will not send it. So, if you have a question call, or post it here and I will try to answer, but calling is faster. If you want to gripe and complain, write your Congressional representative, they were the ones who wrote, voted on and enacted the law, not the FCC, not NTIA and certainly not me.

[everett whitney]

TO: N.B.-03Nov - "Wal.Mart Kept Coupons..!"

That's just because the Rules require them to do so !

Federal coupons are a (1) time offer .... no reissue after expiration or that initial use !

[NB]

We order our coupons and used them right away. One converter box works .."OK". The other one didn't work on either of our other two sets. Returned them to Walmart who offered to exchange for another converter just like the ones we returned. When we declined, they refused to give us back our coupons! So we couldn't try another brand of converter.

[Barry Smiraglia]

Dear Mr FCC,
I did get my coupons within the time frame quoted. I kept going back to the store and all they seemed to have was a diplay unit chained to the shelf. So yes, my coupons expired. So as you say, it is my fault". The thing is it seemed like the # of coupons allocated to be available was limited and I understood that I had to order them before long. Now if 25 million were sent and 11 million redeemed and 25 million x $40 is $1 billion allocated to the program but $440 Million was redeemed, what happened to the other $560 MILLION allocated to NUMBERED cards that could be verified as not having been redeemed. And yes, I need 2 boxes, no more than that. If I got a bad box and returned it then I got the $20 back but the retailer keeps the $40 because they have no replacements? And btw- I checked online at the time and there were no "free" + shipping boxes. Now my grocery store has the boxes. The program should be able to verify the numbered cards weren't used and re-issue them.
Bottom line is I think it is a good program if we need to shut off the VHF broadcasting and analog UHF frequencies, presumably to re-allocate the frequencies. I just don't need the "too bad" attitude. It's going to cost me more than the box cost to throw out the analog/NSTC TV. Not to mention the landfill costs for working sets. Yes, I can get satellite TV for $720/year +. No thanks. When the sunspots are down and the moon is right and the planets are aligned I can get DTV signals which by their nature are either on or blank. I'm not whining, just opposed to wasted electronics and wasted dollars.
Thank you,
Barry

[everett whitney]

TO: Michelle - 30 Oct -"I applied 5 different Times !"

Then, their Computers simply recognized that you HAD done so, set aside those multiple requests as attempts to commit fraud & refused ALL !

Now, you can either buy your own Converters outright or buy new, local, limited channel analog cable services ... good thru 2012, Not Feb.

Cox = (24) @ $11.75, Comcast = (20) @ $11, etc..

[Michelle E. Newton]

I have applied for discount coupons 5 times. Either by
telephone or internet. Each time I received a confirmation
number and due date for them to arrive. When I didn't
receive the requested coupons, I checked and was told (by recording)that I was not approved without giving any reason.
What to do?

[Mike]

I work for the FCC on the DTV transition and there are a few things people should know:
The digital transition was mandated by congress, not the NTIA or the FCC. These organizations had this dumped in their laps over 10 years ago (thanks Mr. Clinton). I know what you are thinking, 10 years is along time to plan and iron out all the issues, and that's true, however the funding for all this didn't come until 2006. So now the 2 agencies are left scrambling to get it off the ground and ensure everybody knows what it is, how it works, and what needs to be done by individual households. The coupon program does work, yes there are a few snafus, and they are being worked on. If you applied and received your coupons, but fail to use them in 90 days, that's 3 months, it's your own fault. Manufacturers are only making a limited amount of converter boxes, and once March 30th or so rolls around, that's it. If your coupons were lost or stolen, ask a neighbor or relative that has cable or satellite tv to apply for coupons they don't need and give them to you. EVERY Household in the US is entitled to 2. So ask someone who doesn't need theirs. Once you get them, if you have internet access, ORDER THE BOXES ONLINE! You can find good boxes for $39.99 and with a coupon that equals FREE!! (Shipping is a separate issue). Call 1-888-338-2009 or go to www.dtv2009.gov to order coupons. If you got your box and can't seem to follow the instructions on setting it up, call 1-888-CALL-FCC (1-888-22-5322) press "0" and tell the technician you need help setting up your box. We have 100 operators here to specifically help consumers install, set up and use their converter boxes. If you already have your box and it works, find a neighbor that has issues and help them out. If you need to know more about DTV and antennas check out www.antennaweb.org this site will tell you what stations are available in your area, what type of antenna you need and which way to point it.

[christine]

The apathy of consumers not getting the boxes within 90 days is not the fault of the program. If you decide to apply for the coupons, then use them. Rather than complain about your expried coupon not being honored and the "feds" giving you a hard time.
Radio Shack did not have eligible converters in stock, so they put them on order and MAILED them to me @ NO CHARGE!!

And if two isn't enough for you, maybe it is time for you to break down and sign up for something more fanciful than air tv!!

[everett whitney]

TO: Kevin - 14 Oct - " Not in a Hurry ..!"

A) - Be aware that the (90) days limitation is counted from their "Mailed by" date, not your rec'd date!

B) - Make sure now that your IS an "UHF" band working antenna system --- i.e. - does it pick up channels @ 14 + higher very clearly ? IF (no), then, perhaps you should balance the cost of a new antenna system verses instead, signing up for the new , limited-channel cable service - good thru early 2012 & allows all your picture tube sets, VCRs , etc., to function just as always ... COX has (24) channels @ $11.75, Comcast offers in most markets (20) @ $11, etc..

[kevin]

Got all the coupons I ordered, but was not anxious to pick up a converter ealry on due to numerous complaints about lemon converters. Once I felt complelled to give it a go I found out they were all expired. Feds refused to replace exired cards so I'm trying alternative ways to get my hands on these. Keep im mind you'll need one for every analog tuner; which inludes your vcrs! 2 might not be nearly enough.

[everett whitney]

TO: F.R. - 13 Oct - " Were 25 million actually ....?"

In fact, thru 08 Oct, here are the "stats" -

Requested ... over 30 million
Mailed ........... " 28.3 million
Redeemed ..... " 11.7 million

It seems to be a confusing, very costly & not totally-successful program, indeed.

[FR Sandez]

Have never received coupons. Repeated inquiries with DTV2009 are fruitless. Their response is that the coupons were issued and were to expired after 90 days if not used. I now suspect that the coupons were never mailed or were stolen. Were the 25 million coupons were actually issued?

[Tom]

This program couldn't have been run worse. There is no mechanism to prevent theft, loss or to ensure actual receipt of these coupons. I applied for two coupons and was approved in March 2008. I was informed that they were to be scheduled to be mailed in May of 2008. To date I have not received ANY coupons. So they were either lost along the way or stolen by someone. I called the Coupon Program and got a person who informed me that according to their records my household was approved for mailing in March. They will not be replacing any lost or stolen coupons. So I'm on my own to buy them at full price. Thank you for nothing NTIA and Congress! There should be a mechanism in place that the person who applied for the coupon provide government picture identification (drivers license or passport?) when purchasing the converter box. Also there should be a much longer expiration date for the cards, like a year's time. Only 49 percent have been redeemed? With all of these issues I'm surprised that a class action lawsuit has not been filed against the NTIA for this debacle.

[everett whitney]

TO: Lauren - 30 Sept - " Only want PBS ...?"

In some locations & markets, PBS is available trough Translators , which will remain on analog. Simply send an Email to your local PBS, inquiring exactly what their plan actually IS for next Feb.?

Very sorry for your recent personal experiences - but - take heart ! Very many Still can not make federal coupon Converters function properly w/o an all-new UHF antenna!

So, perhaps in the end, you have "saved" some funds.

[Lauren]

I recieved my coupons but could only afford to get one box because I have to pay so much for gas. (I had to commute a long way to work) Then I lost my job and couldn't afford to get the box before it expired. I am so screwed. I am one of those who don't watch regular tv, just PBS and I don't see any reason to pay for stuff I don't want or need by getting satellite tv. (cable not available in my area)

[Paul Eng]

To Chris:

I'm sorry you're having difficulties in the transition to digital TV.

Just FYI. The transition to digital TV broadcasts was part of the Telecommunications Act of 1996, which President Bill Clinton signed into law on February 8, 1996.

For more information, see:

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/opadhome/overview.htm

(And search for "digital television" or "DTV.")

So, what you're seeing now--the confusion, the "scramble" to get DTV converters, etc.--is the culmination of more than 10 years of transition. And for what it's worth, the U.S. isn't the only country going through the analog to digital transition. (See Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television_transition)

Regrettably, the transition could have gone a lot smoother for consumers in the U.S. And Consumer's Union (the parent company of Consumer Reports) continues to champion consumers' concerns among the current administration.

For more information about our efforts, see:

http://www.hearusnow.org/tvradio/12/

-Paul Eng
Web Senior Editor, Electronics

[Carolyn]

I think it's a shame that even though there is a coupon, the cost of the converter boxed is at least a few dollars more. So, consumers still lose money.

[Chris]

How was it determined that two was an appropriate number per household? I enjoy having a digital TV in my main bathroom, in my kitchen, in my office, and in my guest room. I have no need to pay for cable service in any of those rooms. Yet I'm only allowed two coupons to buy a product required to continue receiving no-cost, over-the-airwaves TV. I did not have an opportunity to vote on whether I need Digital or HD television, and suspect this is another greed-inspired action that the free-market-mad Bush administration has forced upon the American people.
Who benefits? The FCC can now auction off more frequencies to cable companies that turn around and gouge their customers; the manufacturers of the converter boxes (oh, good idea to send more dollars to China, and deepen our debtor-nation hole!) And how many people will feel forced to add TVs to their already bulging cable bills?

It would be interesting to learn how this plan was developed, passed, and marketed, and the numbers associated with the entire effort.

[Chris]

The article say that they know how many have been redeemed. Can I find out if my coupons were redeemed. Where? By whom? If so, I'd like to retrieve the converters that would rightfully be mine and have the person charged with theft.

The article also mentions "clearly-marked envelopes containing the $40 debit cards". That was a brilliant idea. Let's make it easier for someone to steal from the mail. I would hate for someone to have to go to the trouble of stealing and opening mail that may not be of any value.

I don't mean to keep harping on this, but I signed up early to avoid the problems associated with the crunch period. Even if they had arrived, they probably would have expired before the converters were available.

[Chris]

Ordered my 2 coupons in May. They never arrived and am not allowed to request replacement. This was the worst devised plan to alleviate the cost to the consumer. If they can instantly tell me via the internet that I have already had them "sent" why could they not have used the same common technology to do an instant rebate or coupon at the point of sale. Most retail locations already have internet connections in-store either accessible on the sales floor or in the administrative offices. I'm sure any additional costs to retailers would be offset by the increased sales for a product to address a change that is forced on the public. It just seems that this was not thought out too well, and I am one of many to suffer.