DTVPal converter box: The good—and bad—news

The EchoStar TR-40, a DTV converter box announced by Dish Network six months ago, sparked a lot of interest among consumers because of its long list of wanted features and proposed $40 price tag.

But the TR-40 still hasn't hit the market. And consumers (myself, included) who were the first to request the government's $40 DTV subsidy have to use their coupons before they expire in coming weeks.

Frustrating as that is, there is some good news. Dish Network, which recently split off its satellite-TV services to EchoStar (now a separate company), has started selling a new $60 DTV converter: the DTVPal. (Click on image at right for a closer look.) This new DTV converter box model offers some of the TR-40's sought-after features, including:

• Analog pass-through
• A searchable seven-day electronic programming guide
• An "events" timer that automatically changes channels, allowing your VCR or DVD recorder to record multiple shows across many days—channel 4 on 8.pm. Thursday, channel 7 on 9 p.m. Friday, channel 2 on 5 a.m. Sunday, etc.

We've bought a few DTVPal units and will be taking a closer look at them soon. We're eager to find out how this box stacks up against other converter boxes we've tested. So far, reviews of the Dish Network DTVPal on other blogs seem to be quite positive.

But there is some bad news, too…

The bad news

Like other DTV converter boxes, the DTVPal has a few issues that may cause consumers further angst.

• Price. Its suggested retail price of $60 means that even after the $40 government coupon is applied, consumers will still have to shell out $20 (plus local sales tax).
• A confusing name. "Dish Network" is a brand name better known for subscription-based satellite TV service—which is now run by EchoStar, a totally separate company. "DTV" is also an acronym for DirecTV, the other satellite TV service. And "Pal" could be mistaken for the television standard used in Europe and other parts of the world. Run them all together and it's easy to see how confusion can arise.
  (I personally called a local retailer—twice—asking for this specific model, by full name. Both times I was told the store had it and I could pick two up. Upon arrival at the store, I was given a Dish Network satellite TV box. When I corrected the salesperson, I was told the store only carried one brand of DTV converters and Dish Network "doesn't make DTV converters.")
• Limited availability. Retailers are having a hard time keeping DTV converters, in general, on hand. And some are having particular difficulties stocking DTVPals, specifically. Consumers can purchase units directly from Dish Network's Web site (www.dtvpal.com) and via a toll-free order line (1-888-638-9912). Both are set up to accept the $40 DTV coupons, but buying direct will incur an additional $9 shipping and handling fee per box ordered.

The take away: If your $40 coupons are about to expire and you really need a box that allows you to program VCR recordings, the DTVPal is the only option available—for now. Just be prepared to shell out some cash for "free" digital TV. But if you can afford to wait (i.e. your coupons don't expire until October), you might want to keep dreaming of the TR-40 or some other $40 box.

For more help in deciding which DTV converter box is right for you, see our free "Guide to DTV converter boxes" on ConsumerReports.org.

—Paul Eng

Comments

[Jeff]

Got two DTV converter boxes in august - this dish network / echostar DTV pal and an RCA dtv converter. Hooked to the same antenna and the same TV, the RCA gets 7 channels in perfect weather. Hooking the dish network / echostar DTVPal to the same antenna and tv immediately after or before testing with the RCA converter, the dish / echostar box gets zero (0) channels and zero (0) signal strength. After spending 30 minutes on the phone with echostar / dish customer service and tech support with no answers, they said they would send me a replacement unit for my defective unit. I asked if they would send me a return shipping unit for the defective unit, and the customer service rep said no, they would with satellite boxes but they didn't want the defective dtvpal back. So I waited and waited, and now two months later a replacement dish/echostar dtvpal has never arrived. They did offer to sell me satellite tv, but based on this support experience, I won't be buying anything echostar/dish for a while. Disappointed.

[everett whitney]

TO: Kathy - 09 Nov - " Coupons expiring ...?"

Federal coupon Converters aren't always a satisfactory answer ... watch for any of the "preview / advance notices" regarding 3 A.M. sales on Friday after you've enjoyed the turkey, etc.!

All of these DO have the needed internal ATSC digital tuner now .... no Converter at all used !

You "DO" need an appropriate antenna & most-likely, NOT the set top one being used. Unless very close to your TV Towers, indoor, set top antennas are a pain & do Not provide 100 % consistent digital reception like our 40-50 year old "rabbit ears" / analog sets did.

Wal-Mart, of course, plus Costco each has extended Plans for folks on very tight budgets, too .... about $59 / 2 years, etc..

[kathy]

like some here,I cant afford to pay the prices being charged for cable or att uverse(which sounds like a dream come true,I read about it last night...wow...cell phone acess to tape shows at home..I REALLY like the sound of this but medicine,food and shelter are most important and barley able to afford those)well all I need to be able to do is *cheaply* tape Days of Our Lives weekdays...on my antique : ) white ((which was hard to find)) 13 inch tv with built in vcr.....this little tv has been a prized possesion of mine and every night before falling off to sleep I watch my soap....so its very confusing on how I can still accomplish this task...and what Exactly I will need...since the vcr is built in,i havent had this answered and my coupons expire wednesday...THATS HOW LONG I HAVE BEEN INQUIRING..WOW

[Olive]

Has anyone tried the new DTVPal Plus and if so, did they fix the gliches that I read with the on/off and timer problems? I would like to buy one but now I am hesitant. Any info would be highly appreciated. Thanks

[everett whitney]

TO: John - 28 Oct - "Expired coupons - need Act of Congress?"

It is very unlikely ... Too many Much Hotter problems ahead of this one, obviously!

As of last Wed, over 30 million were mailed & with 9.8 expired, only 20.2 used/still valid, that means essentially 10 million will Have to do something else.

All major markets do have a new, limited analog cable service until 2012 .. COX has (24) @ $11.75 / Comcast in many offers (20) @ $11 ... would keep all the VCRs going, too, as well as avoid the need of an appropriate UHF antenna System required by ALL federal coupon Converters, including a total replacement sometimes!

[John]

applied early

waited for better information regarding converter box.

Now coupon has expired
include my name on list of millions
to wait for act of Congress

[Jesse @ DTVPal]

I just recently got the DTVPal Plus and it seems to be working great for me. I cannot imagine how there could be any converter box that could be better than it. The only thing it is missing is a universal remote control.

[DW]

There is nothing special about the antennas. I have had VHF/UHF antenna for 20 years and use it will all of my digital converters, TVs, and recorders. I've even tested various boxes using just old unamplified "rabbit ears" for quick tests. Right now all of the stations in my area use the UHF spectrum. Take a look at http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/dtvantennas.html. Also look at http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx which will assist you in pointing your antenna in the right direction. It has a map of the location of the local broadcast towers for your area. The last site also gives you the ACTUAL DIGITAL CHANNEL number. Most people are not aware that the actual broadcast digital channel number is not the same as the old broadcast channel number. A "special" feature of digital transmission allows the "old" analog channel number to be displayed and stored for tuning purposes even though another channel number/frequency is actually being used.

[everett whitney]

TO: Ronnie - 30 Aug - MATH No Good !!!

That's 7 million + unused, expired Federal Coupons - NOT dollars worth !

Obviously, that times the $40/each equals WHY they
are not about to "change their rules!"

Sorry !

[everett whitney]

TO: Ronnie - 30 Aug - " Expired Coupons ..."

Sorry - but - since to do so would cost them over $7 million dollars ( the value of expired, unused Coupons as of last week ) - No Chance !

Besides, most will also need a new digital antenna system - Not covered by any coupons !

[Paul Eng]

To Kiavash:

It sounds like you have a unit with "bad" firmware. We wrote about it in this blog. See this entry:

August 29, 2008
Issues with Dish's DTVPal DTV converters?

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2008/08/issues-with-dis.html

-Paul Eng
Web Senior Editor, Electronics

[Ronnie]

I know ignorance is no excuse, but I also did not know that there was an expiration date on the cards. I didn't even open the envelope until recently, after having it for several months. I figured there was no hurry since I didn't need the boxes until February. I'm hanging on to my cards just in case they decide to honor them after all.

[Kiavash]

My DTVPal is working pretty well except if I turn it off for 30min or more, it looses all the timers that I set. I am not sure it is a bug or it is supposed to be this way. I used to be a Dish Network Customer and I know their support is not reliable (from my own expereince).

[Michael]

I ordered the DTV Pals several months ago and had been using them successfully to simply watch TV without any problems. Lately, the picture quality has plummeted. When I simply stopped turning on the Pal in order to watch regular old TV but now approximately every 15 minutes which disrupts our TV signal. This happens as well when everything is off. We have checked everything, reset to the factory defaults and it continues to do this, kind of similar to Nikos' comment. I have yet to call Dish, but I'm guessing the same deal will happen with teh "programming". But I'm wondering if this "top quality" piece of equipment cannot stand up to power surges and brown outs, which occur frequently in my area and if you need a power strip.

If anyone else has this problem please reply to this comment.

[cloudsandskye]

DTVPal produces a very good picture on most channels in my area (Saint Paul, MN) without any change in the antenna position. I never watch a television show when it is broadcast, instead recording it on my old analog VCR for viewing later. The problem for me is that when the VCR receives the digital signal from the converter box, it suppresses the volume and adds a background hiss to the VCR recording, which is very annoying. Apparently, an analog VCR is not very compatible with DTVPal. I disconnected the converter box and decided the best solution for my situation is to remove the need to use the converter box by purchasing a new VCR with a digital tuner, such as the JVC DRMV100B. If you just watch television in real time and don't record programs on an analog VCR, then this converter box is very good for that situation.

[Paul Eng]

To all:

We've updated our Ratings of DTV converter boxes to include 24 more new models, including the long-awaited DTVPal. Please go to this URL:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/televisions/digital-tv-converter/ratings/dtv-converter-boxes-ratings.htm

Or go to:

http://www.consumerreports.org/dtv

and see the link to the "Ratings of DTV converter boxes."

-Paul Eng
Web Senior Editor, Electronics

[everett whitney]

TO: Bob - 21 Aug - "Full Converter Refund?..."

It is NOT allowed ... the initial $40 is simply "gone!"

Except for the straightforward, live watching of the 4 - 5 major networks + PBS - without recording - the federal coupon Converter program is a very limited one!

Many will need replacement antenna systems of one sort or another ... if hired to be accomplished commercially, any will cost far more than the Converter.

For homes with multiple CRT televisions, the possibility of simply having analog cable thru early 2012- free to the remaining TVs after the initial set - will prove to be the more satisfactory solution, as antenna signals are usually insufficiently strong to support 3, 4, etc,. TVs adequately.

In our market, new "analog" cable customers are being offered free installation for all sets in the home and a "special" monthly rate schedule.

[Bob]

After waiting months for the DTVpal, having one order canceled because of unavailability and the price increase, I finally got a pair just days before my coupons expired. I installed one on my bedroom TV shortly before we left on vacation.

Two weeks later, it wasn't working properly. When turned on, it would download schedule for a minute, give me about a minute of TV viewing, then the picture would lock up. It would stay this way for a while, then eventually "reboot", power off, back on, and repeat the process over and over.

Aside from all the firmware bugs that have been reported on this unit (see the AVSforum link), this unit is broken. Repeated emails, chat, and phone calls with Dish over the past 2 weeks, and they can't even figure out how to replace a failed box under their warranty. It seems their entire operation is set up to require an account number to do anything, which DTVpal users don't have.

This company is dishonest and does not support their product. Their alleged warranty isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Since I bought this with coupons that are now expired, can any one tell me how to get my money back, either from dish or the vendor, INCLUDING the value of the coupons, so I can buy something else?

Then there's the problem that no other box will support a VCR or DVR programming after next January.

[tvdude]

Nikos,
Why do you care that the converter doesn't turn off after a program is over? As long as it changes channels to record a second or third program on your VCR or DVD-R, every program is recorded correctly. I imagine the power draw is next to nothing, maybe a penny or two a day.

If it turns itself off when you are watching tv, that would be a problem.

[Nikos Retsos]

DTVpal EXASPERATION! I ordered the DTVpal by phone from Dish Echostar, and it arrived by UPS in two days. Everything seemed to be ok until I noticed that the Box was turning on and off on
it own - without any timer being programmed! I unplugged the unit; I restored the factory defaults, ans re-set up channels, etc.. The I programmed the timer, and I noticed that the timer
turned on 1.5 minute before the event started -as it should- but
the unit DIDN'T TURN OFF at the end of the event. I "Disabled"
the Inactivity Standby thinking that may resolve the problem. NO
LUCK.

I called Echostar Customer Service, they turn me over to Tech Support who told me first the unit "Should Turn Off" after the timed event was over, then switched me to TWO other techs for
a fix. No fix. The Last Tech told me "it is NORMAL for the unit
to stay ON after the timed events are over!

Called again Echostar next day, and a nice Rep, Ken, told me that
I will be receiving a replacement unit with a different "Software
Version" that the One I had with the "F101TCGH-N" Software Version. Well, I received it today, July 30, 2008 by UPS at 1:10pm; it has the same F101TCGH-N Software Version, and I tested the timers again and the Unit STAYS ON -STILL ON 2 HOURS
AFTER THE TIMED EVENT ENDED! AND AFTER PAYING $ 35.84 [after a $40 coupon], now I have to pay $ 12.00 for shipping back the first Unit for a replacement Unit with the same problem.

The Unit's timers have "Starting Time" that turns the Unit "On"
but NO END programmable time - just duration, like 30, 60, minutes, etc.. But at the end of the "Duration Time" the Unit
has no mechanism to "Turn it Off". It stays on FOREVER!!
I hope Consumer Reports test and verify that on the "Software Version" listed here. It is a LEMON!

[Marie]

Info on how to set up 2 boxes with a splitter is found on www.fcc.gov/cgb/comsumerfacts/CC_converters.html. You may have to follow some links or click on the question: "setting up your digital-to-analog converter box with a VCR". They also talk about getting a splitter with a built-in amplifier since this split may weaken the signal. I presently don't have to change the antenna position to get my channels so don't have that problem YET! I am thinking of connecting the DTVPal to the VCR since it has "event timer", but getting a different box with a universal controller to hook directly to the TV since that will be used the most often and a universal controller DOESN'T come with the DTVPal. Any thoughts on other units, especially ones with either the aspect ratio button on the remote or auto aspect ratio in the box???

[Cindi]

I just purchased a DTV Pal at my local Sears store. After reading all of the info on the internet, I just had to try one even though I'm very happy with my Zenith DTT 901. What I have found is that it does not pull in the same stations as the Zenith. I get all of my local stations with the Zenith and the Pal misses 4 digital channels, which do have a lower signal strength (I'm 40 miles from Minneapolis). I guess you need to decide if the extra features are worth sacrificing channels. I quite disappointed after all the hype!

[DTV Watcher]

Marie: I like your splitter idea. Maybe that's simplier than what I do. What I was instead planning to do was a daisy-chain where I have my Insignia DTV Converter (NS-DXA1-APT with Analog-Pass-Through) connected to the TV via the antenna coax connection and set for channel 3, then I would have the VCR connected via the coax to that first DTV Converter box but have the VCR set up for channel 4, and then have the DTVPal connected to the VCR (maybe using the A/V cables) where the DTVPal is acting as the tuner for reception to be received for the VCR. And then I would have my antenna connected to the DTVPal at the end of all to that. I don't know if this will work, but this is the sort of daisy-chain that I use in connecting two VCRs, a DVD recorder, and a DVD player to a single TV for regular analog over-the-air TV.

Oh I'm currently using a splitter but for connecting TWO antennas to my Insignia DTV Converter box - that way I have the first antenna pointed in one direction to get reception for most of my channels while the second antenna is pointed in a different direction for getting two other channels that need the antenna to be pointed in that different direction. That way, I don't have to get up from the couch to rearrange the antenna for getting a particular channel. When I get my DTVPal, and set up the daisy-chain, then I'll have to move this dual-splitter-antenna to the DTVPal at the end of my daisy-chain.

Again, don't know if my daisy-chain will work or if the signal will be messed up, but that's how I'm going to try it when I get the DTVPal box to go along with my current Insignia DTV Converter box.

[DTV Watcher]

My local Sears only got FOUR units, meaning only 4 DTVPals. They were sold out the same day they came in. I'm guessing that some people (probably at least two guys who each had two gov't coupons each) in my area also saw the news that Sears was getting the DTVPals and went to Sears everyday last week until the DTVPals showed up and snatched them up as soon as they arrived. So that means NADA, NOTHING, NO DTVPAL for me to buy at Sears. The Sears person in the electronics department said they were suppose to get more but don't know when. I'm not holding my breath if they only got FOUR of them in the first place at my local Sears store. Only FOUR of them. Yesh!

I just put in an order on the DTVPal website. The only problem I had in ordering was that I had to call DishNetwork on their 800 number to make sure that my $40 gov't coupon card went through because it didn't show on the confirmation page. Seeing the full price plus S&H and tax but no $40 gov't coupon discount was disconcerting. Calling the 800 number cleared things up because I was told that the order was "incomplete" but now complete after my calling to talk to the DishNetwork people. So, if you get a DTVPal, maybe call their 800 number to order to make sure it's done right, or go to that other website that Gary C. went to.

Oh what I thought was silly when I was talking to the DishNetwork people on the phone was that they asked if I needed someone to come in to set up for me. They probably automatically ask that for all the satellite TV orders they get. But this is just a DTV converter box which I don't think is too difficult to set up. But I suppose that some people will need help. I'm guessing there's an extra charge if want someone to set it up for you.

[justin]

OK. My previous positive review of this unit on 7/16 has gone down. As noted by another person in this forum, my unit's event timer is kaput - it will not hold the channel it is set to. Instead in always reverts to the local PBS station. After 45 minutes on the phone with Dish repair, the bottom line was: return to store for replacement, IF they have one...Otherwise TBD.