Hybrid price war: Honda Insight vs. Toyota Prius

Is there about to be a hybrid price war between Toyota and Honda? Toyota is looking to reduce the price of the current Prius to $19,250 in Japan in order to more closely match the price of the new Honda’s Insight, according to Bloomberg News. The Insight will start at $19,800 including destination charges, and if left unchallenged, it would be the lowest-price hybrid in American when it goes on sale this spring. The starting price for the out-going base 2009 Prius is $22,000.

Undercutting the Insight's price wouldn't be easy for Toyota. The Prius is a larger car and it has a more complex hybrid system that allows the car to be regularly propelled at low speeds on the battery alone. The 2010 Prius has standard stability control; you need to buy the Insight in its higher-priced $21,300 EX trimline to get ESC. Given this, if Toyota's serious at undercutting the Insight's base price, perhaps we'll see a price-leader Prius model to rival the base Insight, though doubtful it would include steel wheels as shown in our photo.

Pricing for the redesigned 2010 Toyota Prius with higher fuel economy and a larger engine has not yet been announced. It will arrive at dealers in late spring.

Hybrid vehicles sold like hot cakes last year amid high gas prices. In response, automakers accelerated new hybrid production to increase sales. It seemed like the right move at the time, but now hybrids are sitting on dealer lots. According to an LA Times article, only 15,144 hybrids were sold nationwide last month. Even the segment-leading Prius has seen sales dip, being down 30 percent from this time last year. And now, the market is about to be expanded with new models, including the Insight, Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan hybrids. Competition should help prices, both retail and transaction, be more attainable than in the past.

It may be a difficult time for many consumers to buy a new car, but for those in the market this year, there will be new, fuel-efficient choices whose appeal may increase should gas prices rise again this summer—especially if priced aggressively.

—Liza Barth

Comments

[Joe]

Honda's playing a game. They configure a high end model with full safety features CR requires for a top recommendation and then sell a ton of low and mid models to consumers.

If Insight's most popular models lack ESC, don't give them the safe recommendation.

[Chuck]

I read on TempleofVTEC.net that 60% of Insights would be EX, 30% LX, and 10% EX w/Navi. That makes 70% of the models w/ ESC.
I do think that by now ALL cars should have ESC in the same way that anitlock brakes have become almost universally standard. How much does an auto manufacturer save by leaving that safety feature off?

[Craig Gander]

I read that they redesigned the braking systems for the 2010 Prius. That appears to be Toyota's response to the fact that the U.S. Generation 2 Prius (2004-2009) has had low-speed brake failures reported to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) at 31 times the rate of such failures reported for the 2004-2009 Corolla, which of course has traditional brakes. Many of the Prius low speed brake failures were in low-speed city traffic, resulting in rear-end collisions without injury. It appears that the several computers that control the complex braking systems were too busy calculating the most efficient way to apply the brakes, and did not get around to actually applying them, until it was too late. Toyota never took responsibility for the problem, but the 2010 redesign indicates they were aware of it. Unfortunately, the NHTSA never initiated an investigation despite the extremely high rate of failures. The detailed failure reports ("complaints") are available to the public on the NHTSA website. The details are these: Through March 2009, 2004-2009 Prius has received 44 complaints of low speed brake failure. 2004-2009 Corolla has received 7 complaints of such failures. Given that about five times more Corollas than Prius were sold during 2004-2009, 44/(7/5) = 31 times the rate of brake failure for the Generation 2 Prius. Let's hope the 2010's brakes work!

[Rob]

There is nothing wrong with the brakes on the current Prius. That is why neither Toyota or the NHTSA have taken these cases very seriously, beyond examining the vehicles. People think that the Prius is all "drive-by-wire" and therefore prone to failures or software bugs. Consequently, when they crash one a lawyer tells them to say it was "unintended acceleration" and brake failure caused by new fangled fancy computers. There has been a group of lawyers trying to organize a class action suit against Toyota regarding the Prius for years. They put complaints on the NHTSA site to try and bolster their claims. Notice how many of them are not written by the vehicle owner, or are ambigous, use made up dates, or seem to describe the same event multiple times, or include extravagant details about sailing through the air and landing in rivers that are largely irrelevant to a basic safety complaint.

The problem with this claim is, while the throttle is electronic in the Prius (like a lot of cars now), the brakes aren't. If you push the brake softly, you get electronic braking and recharge the battery. This happens down to about 8 mph, at which point the computer transfers power to the hydraulic brakes. If you push the brakes hard its all hydraulic immediately, no computer thinking needed. Of course if you exceed the traction point of the tires, the ABS will engage (as in any car) and your car won't stop as fast as you think it should (but faster than it would have without ABS).

Try Googling "unintended acceleration" combined with virtually any car name and you'll find people who have tried to blame their accidents on their cars instead of their own mistakes. This is nothing new.

[Ann]

The prius has a much bigger engine and a much quiter and smoother ride. If you are going to spend the money for a hybrid vehicle anyone, why not buy the clearly better vehicle, your wallet will thank you in the long run, you wont need to replace it quite as soon.

[Jim]

I was planning on obtaining a 2010 Prius V with advanced technology package in August 2009. When the Prius first was shipped to the USA there was a limited distribution and I actually had an opportunity to obtain a 2010 Prius V with advanced technology package in June but turned it down as I was continuing to lease my current vehicle until late August 2009.

The current nationwide supply of 2010 Prius V (with and without the advanced technology package)is few and far between, and the delivery of additional inventory to the dealerships is down to a trickle if at all.

Does anyone have an answer as to Why Toyota seems to be no longer shipping 2010 Prius V's.

[Kevin Austin]

Hi! Jim,

Toyota Motors Sales often distributes each trim level to various areas of the USA depending on demand. For example the BASE, package 2, and package 3 is most popular here in Southern California. Hope this was helpful.

Kevin Austin
Norwalk Toyota

[Jacqueline Pitts]

Rob: Do you work for Toyota? I have experienced brake failure at low speeds and I would advise you to check the NHTSA web site for the ODI's related to brake failure on the Toyota Prius. I crashed my car into the side of an oncoming vehicle and sustained about $5,000 damage. The other car, a Town and Country, had little damage because I WAS MOVING SO SLOWLY. Only the impact with the other car stopped my vehicle. I urge you to look at the reports, especially ODI ID #10273082. This report was filed by a driver who has driven on the test tracks at GM's proving grounds. I think he does not make a mistake about the accelerator vs. the brake pedal. If you want my car, you can have it and take your chances on a mountain road.

I am getting rid of my 2008 Prius. It is not a safe car for me.

[Melanie Longden]

The 2009 Toyota Corolla Hydraulic Brake Recall Fixture was a failure for my Corolla: Please Read My Story Below
The dealership does not seem to concerned for the safety and well being of myself or other drivers. Since I purchased my Corolla in Nov. 08, they said they can find nothing wrong with the car. Yet the brakes continuously slip to the floor, and my car goes off the road and thru stop signs for failing to stop. This break failure occurs at low speeds. The brakes have been checked by Toyota's qualified technicians multiple times, and they find nothing wrong with the car.
I did take the car in for the hydraulic service brake recall in September 09. This did not resolve the problem. The brakes failed again twice this past week. Again, the car failed to stop as the brakes went to the floor. The car went thru a stop sign into an intersection. I almost crashed into a car one time and a tree the second time. Last winter was even worse trying to avoid collisions and rear ending other drivers when the brakes failed. All Toyota will do at this time is try and reinact the situation with the car they say. This did not happen this week when I brought the car in to be checked. I told them the breaks fail sporatically ,and the car is not a dog which performs on cue. It did not do anything when they tested it last winter either. I said again they are releasing a car back to me which is unsafe. I asked them if they felt it was safe and they would not give me a direct response. I also asked them to sign a letter stating the car is safe to drive which they refused to do.
I would like Toyota to resolve this brake safety issue with the Corolla, and to warn all other consumers of the possibility of reoccurring brake issues since the recall. I told them the car I own is unsafe to drive and will cause a crash on the road. It will potentially harm me, another innocent
driver on the road, or a pedestrian.