Replacement costs drop for hybrid batteries

A frequently voiced concern about hybrids centers around the high cost of replacement batteries, which have ranged up to about $3,000. Now some relief may be on the way. Toyota announced last month that it has reduced the price of replacement batteries for the current (2002-2009) Prius by $686, to $2,299. Batteries for the first-generation Prius dropped $397 to $2,588.

That still seems like a lot of money. But overall, we have found hybrids to be very reliable in our subscriber surveys and relatively inexpensive to own. Automakers are required to warranty batteries for 8 years and 80,000 miles nationwide or 10 years and 150,000 miles in states that follow California emissions regulations. Relatively few hybrids have exceeded that mileage yet.

Given the length of the battery warranty, even if a hybrid owner does have to replace the battery pack after 80,000 or 150,000 miles, the cost is comparable to the cost of a transmission, which would likely have failed in other cars before that point. And hybrids have fewer other issues, which more makes up for any added battery cost.

Toyota says it has been able reduce costs in part by building its own batteries through its joint venture with Panasonic, through Panasonic EV Battery Corp., thereby reducing the impact from the battery middleman. And the company says it expects battery price drops to continue.

The nickel-metal hydride batteries in the all of the current hybrid vehicles are also recyclable which may help with price reductions.

Cheaper batteries are good news for more than owners of hybrids today. Electric cars, and hybrids that plug in for extra power are the most promising near-term alternative to oil consumption. And those cars will require bigger and better batteries to meet consumer demands for performance and range.

The next generation of advanced batteries are called lithium-ion batteries, like the one we had installed in the plug-in Prius we are testing. Lithium Ion batteries are smaller and lighter for the same energy storage capacity and so lend themselves better to full electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles. However, they cost even more than nickel-metal hydride batteries. And expensive lithium-ion batteries are the biggest stumbling block to building more electric cars. So the race is on to lower the price of batteries across the board.

Toyota will start building lithium-ion batteries in 2009 and mass-producing them in 2010, the company says. But Toyota’s National Manager of Advance Technology Vehicles Bill Reinert says the company is already looking beyond lithium ion for future energy storage.

Dilithium crystals or a Flux Capacitor, anyone?

—Eric Evarts

Learn more about alternative fuels in our guide to driving green. And read "Taking charge: Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid."

Comments

[Greg Krohne]

According to Toyota, no Prius batteries have needed replacement because of malfunction or "wearing out." The only replacements sold have been because of accidents.

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-batteries-none-the-worse-for-wear-cga.htm

[Cale]

Does CR really think the answer to our dependence on oil is to put everyone in a hybrid? How smart is it to advocate one automotive solution for another? Have you guys really thought this through?

This may be the simplistic approach, but if I were trying to reduce dependence, I'd be advocating getting people out of their cars altogether.

The only serious justification for buying a Prius with gas prices where they are today are a) for national security or b) to reduce green house gases.

I support the green house gas reduction part. And if knee-jerk consumers in this country hadn't driven up the price of a used Prius, I might just have bought one. But I'm pretty certain that in the long run I'd end up replacing both batteries AND transmission parts to get to 200k miles.

As far as energy independence goes...does anyone really believe that the transfer of wealth to Venezuela and Saudi Arabia is the biggest challenge the world faces in terms of security? With several airbases in and around Saudi Arabia and Naval aircraft carriers and missile frigates on continuous patrol in the Gulf of Hormuz, the US has already put it's plan into action to protect the world's oil. Reducing dependence is NOT going to change our commitment to stability in the region and the free flow of oil.

So if energy independence isn't about pulling military resources out of the region, what is it about? IMHO, it's just a buzz word for mistrust and prejudice of "other" people.

Must we be hateful and mistrustful of the people that sell us oil? Will we feel that way about the people that sell us batteries? Hydrogen? My guess is a resounding YES.

Just my $.02.

[rick]

Transmission? How many cars go through a transmission ever?

[everett whitney]

TO: Rick - 17 Oct - "Transmissions ...?"
Just about every vehicle after 60 -70,000 anymore !

Those 4 - 5 speed units - especially the early O.D. ones - are Not lifetime!

[David Evans]

Well, with more than 125,000 miles on our 4-speed OD 2002 Camry's transmission, it's still working fine.

[everett whitney]

TO: Dave - 17 Oct - " Camry @ 125,000 ..."

Certainly - but - as you've read many times at C.R.'s "John's Repairs" questions, there are tons of domestic transmissions going out at much less. Have a great weekend.

eli

[everett whitney]

Battery Costs ...

In reality, there should be no one ever keeping a Prius until they would be responsible for such a purchase anyway.

Ever since inception here in U.S., the demand for used and still in-warranty units has always been so high that it's been reasonable to simply order the next replacement due to the waiting list, & after arrival, sell the previous one privately & for a handsome premium! Just simply "flip" them & always have a new unit!

Hence, never an issue at all, be it back in 2001 or now.
Will certainly change sometime but until then, why not?

[Catherine]

I thought a transmission was something that was rarely a concern; I have a 1973 VW bug (manual) that has gone through 3 engines but is still on the original transmission; our '82 land cruiser (manual) had well over 450,000 km on it with the original transmission; and our '97 CRV (automatic) has almost 400,000km on it with the original transmission.

[Harry Spatz]

Eric Evarts said, "even if a hybrid owner does have to replace the battery pack after 80,000 or 150,000 miles, the cost is comparable to the cost of a transmission, which would likely have failed in other cars before that point." This comment might lead the consumer to think that the Prius has batteries INSTEAD of a transmission. This is not the case. Here is an article about replacing a Prius transaxle because one of the drive motors burned out. Toyota wanted $5000 to do this! http://www.artsautomotive.com/PriusMG2.htm. So keep in mind that as it ages, you might need over $2000 in batteries and a $5000 transaxle replacement.

Is it really logical to think that a Prius with a gasoline motor, two large electric motors, a transaxle, a huge battery pack, and sophisticated electronics is going to be more reliable than a similar car with only a gasoline motor and a transaxle?

[Jim French]

Has Consumer Reports ever tested the degradation of these battery packs? What happens to MPG as the battery packs age? I guess I'm just not buying that they have anywhere near the charge potential at 50,000 miles that they had new. When they go on the used car market are buyer's going to be willing to shell out a few thousand for new batteries for their used car?

I just haven't ever owned a Nickel Metal Hydride or Lithium Ion battery that didn't severely degrade over time.

It would be interesting to grab a Prius with 60,000 miles on it and run back through the MPG tests and see what you get. Maybe you already have.

[P.J. McCombs]

Just a note re: battery degredation

The NiMH batteries we're all familiar with in other consumer products--cell phones, laptops, digital cameras, etc.--degrade in part because of their harsh user-regulated charging cycles. Damage occurs at the extreme ends of the charging cycles, and people routinely let batteries in these devices wear out completely, then fully recharge, over and over.

Prius batteries, on the other hand, are strictly kept within a 40%-80% state of charge by the car's computers (the same is true of other hybrids), so they aren't subject to the same losses.

My wife's Prius just turned 65,000 miles and we haven't detected any noticeable change in the powertrain's behavior over time.

[Janice]

I have a 2002 Toyota Prius. The battery has just gone dead without warning.

The cost for replacement, for battery, tax, and labor, is about $3,300.00.

What they don't tell you is that it's almost impossible to find one. Nobody stocks them because Toyota tells the dealers that they don't wear out, that they last the life of the car.

They don't. My car has 117,500 miles on it. According to the dealer, everything else is perfect, but the battery is defective.

They say it takes 2 - 3 weeks to get one from the manufacturer.

Until now, my Prius has been the most wonderful car I've owned. However, as a single parent with three kids, I am now devastated. I have called Toyota to see if they can help find a battery. They refuse.

Something to keep in mind.

[PJ McCombs]

Janice,

I'm sure you've already thought of this, but just thought I'd put it out there anyway.

Have you had the dealer (or another mechanic) verify that your Prius' NiMH battery pack--and NOT its conventional lead-acid car battery--is the source of the power loss? Not everyone knows that the Prius has a conventional car battery, because it's hidden under the carpet in the trunk. But just like non-hybrid cars, the Prius' powertrain relies on a conventional lead-acid battery to get its other systems (including the electric hybrid drive) started.

I mention this because my wife and I found our 2005 Prius dead one morning, and we were both surprised to find that we could simply jump-start it. Since 100,000 miles is about when you'd expect a lead-acid battery to expire--and given the iffy ethics of many dealer service departments--I can't help wondering if the dealer in question is trying to pull a fast one.

[Johnny B]

I agree with PJ McCombs!

We have a 2002 Prius with over 200,000k and ours started to have electrical problems (flashing screens/gadges etc...) then died. Took to dealer who said we needed to replace the battery pack. after researching on line, took it to another dealer and TOLD them to replace the Auxilary Battery ($170 installed) and have had no more problems! :)

[John]

My 2002 Prius needed a new transmission at 86k miles (extended warranty expired at 80,000 miles)
I had to pay over $5k to get the car working again, was stopped at a signal one day and it just died.
Tried calling Toyota to ask if they would give me a better deal but they said no, there are not parts in the 02 Prius transmission they can repair its replace only.

So it does happen

[Shaun Capps]

Hey dummies, Prius doesent have a transmission!

[BigShiggy]

There is a sucker born every minute, want to buy a Prius?

[BHA]

No thanks BigShiggy, I already have 2 (an '04 and '06) and there are only two drivers in the family. What would I do with a third Prius??

Shaun - The Prius DOES have a transmission. How do you think the power gets from the gas engine and electric motor to the wheels? It is not a conventional stepped transmission, it is a planetary gear transmission. Nothing to shift and nothing to strip. I LOVE my 'permanently meshed, never shifts and no belts to slip' planetary gear transmission.

'04 Prius has 95K miles. Replaced one wheel bearing and the license plate lights last month. 1 headlight and the 12V last year and a couple of side marker lights. Front brake pads still at 60%, rears at 80%. I have saved over $7,000 just in gas compared to the '95 Odyssey this car replaced. By 95K miles that vehicle had had the rear rotors replaced 3 times, the fronts once plus several ABS wheel sensors and the exhaust system as well.

The '06 Prius has 35LK miles and has had no maintenance other than oil and filter changes.