U.S. gas prices—March 17, 2008

Gas prices continue to climb.

National retail fuel price averages

Price

Change from last week

Regular gasoline/gallon	$3.28	↑ .06
Diesel fuel/gallon	$3.97	↑ .16

Regional regular gasoline prices

Price

Change from last week

East Coast	$3.25	↑ .06
-New England	$3.21	↑ .04
-Central Atlantic	$3.25	↑ .06
-Lower Atlantic	$3.27	↑ .06
Midwest	$3.25	↑ .06
Gulf Coast	$3.18	↑ .05
Rocky Mountain	$3.18	↑ .07
West Coast	$3.52	↑ .07
-California	$3.60	↑ .07

Source: Energy Information Administration, 3/17/08

Comments

[Ruben]

News like these, are becoming sadly common these days, and, as we can surely guess, are going to continue and get even worse soon.

The search for fuel saving techniques and alternative fuels is becoming mandatory, but what most people don't know, (yet) is that one powerful and simple technology is already usable, to save huge amounts of petrol-based fuels, by using plain water to extract and use the hydrogen contained in it.

[Terry Taylor]

I've read some information on-line about using a device that separates hydrogen and oxygen from the water. The gas is then fed into the fuel line to be burned with the gasoline from the tank. So if this is true and credible, why has it not been tested and marketed as a fuel saver in mainstream stores? I would like consumers to test it! If it works and doesn't harm the engine, it could be a big jump in limiting fuel consumtion!

[STEVEN]

I've seen those adds and it seems too good to be true. Like hairloss remedies, if they really worked they would be on the front page of the New York Times!

I too would like to see Consumerreports test these claims.

[Grungebob]

Yeah c'mon CR, test some of these 'Water For Gas' devices that claim to split water into HHO or whatever and can be burned in your car's engine to increase gas mileage. Do any of these work or are they just 'snake oil'? Or is the government and big oil really suppressing this information? CR has never been afraid to step up in the past!

[Cherie Bamrick]

I live in Green Bay WI and all the stations are at $3.94 and have been bouncing between that and $3.99 for a week now.

[Dean]

I ordered an HHO generator and installation kit today. Money-back guarantee ... I'll have it early next week. I will install it and monitor performance with a ScanGuage. I will be able to give you exact figures by 6.13.08. Check back for results!

[JTM]

Dean, thanks for doing the testing. I'm looking forward to your results the next couple days.

[Mathew]

Dean, I'm on this website for this very reason (Water for Gas products). Im looking forward to seeing if this is real or BS. CS, where are you?

[Rick R.]

I've been reading on this for a while now trying to decide if it is true or not. Look forward to seeing the results.
Thanks Dean

[Jennifer]

Dean, do you have any test results for us? I would really like to know how it works...

[Bryan]

June 14 and no remarks from Dean.... I fear that CR is in bed with the Government on this one guys. For that matter, I pray Dean is still alive. ^^ j/k

[Jeff Bartlett - Consumer Reports]

We've been looking at the claims from the miracle water devices, as we plan to test more gas-saving devices. I've seen kits that use mason jars and call for drilling into an engine... Frightening stuff. Regarding any gas-saving device, approach with a healthy measure of skepticism.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tires-auto-parts/car-maintenance/gassaving-devices-904/overview/index.htm

[JTM]

To Jeff Barlett/CR:

Jeff, thanks very much for your input. We really need CR's timely help on this issue. I hope you can keep us posted on any preliminary results of testing these water devices. In my opinion, unless there's some miracle involved, if one kg of hydrogen contains the same energy as a gallon of gasoline, I cannot see how a simple electrolysis device can produce enough hydrogen to be significant.

[Jerry]

Dean,

You have an audience on the edge of their seats. The gas companies didn't kidnap you did they.

[Cameron]

I am waiting for dean as well. I have a Hydrogen Generator as well and I am waiting to see if the results of it will be beneficial to both gas mileage and the potential damage to the engine. Hurry up Mr. Dean!

[Rebecca]

Jeff, I along with millions count on Consumer Reports to evaluate what is new. This mechanism is getting a lot of ink and we need sound testing information from Consumer Reports. Please see if this can become a priority.

[Mike]

Our local news interviewed a man who developed a hydrogen-based system. The reporters ran the car and seemed satisfied that the claims were true. His 1996 Cadillac went from 17 MPG to 53 MPG. Here is the link to the story including video: http://www.whnt.com/Global/story.asp?s=8311741

[Chrissy]

I am also looking into HHO/ water hybrid kits and can't find many reviews (I did find 2 that said they had a lot of trouble finding the parts to make the kit for Run your car on water - but had no results posted.) that aren't linked to a money making scheme. Any 3rd party review that is credible would be great. Popular Mechanics said they tested one about 2 years ago and it lowered gas mileage 20%. That is remarkable and depressing. I'd like to see Run Your Car on Gas and Water 4 Gas tested by Consumer Reports, please.

[Gabe]

I have a degree in physics and I understand the idea and it seems plausible. My problem is that it requires a lot of energy to break H2O into HHO and I'm not sure what kind of strain this might put on the electrical system. I have a friend who, with the help of his mechanic, put one on his Toyota Tundra and saw an improvement from 17 to 25 mpg. He is optimistic that they will achieve better results when they get the kinks worked out. On board computers and O2 sensors apparently get confused when HHO gas is introduced. I would still like to see something from CR on it so I could feel better about what it may or may not do to my vehicle.

[Bill]

Save your money! This is a perpetual motion machine scam. The writer with the degree in physics seems to have forgotten his basic thermodynamics. Surely, one can split water into its constituent hydrogen and oxygen, but the energy required to do so will always exceed the energy returned when the hydrogen is subsequently burned to recombine with oxygen (and re-form the water). Hydrogen-, or if one must say water-, powered vehicles are not only possible, they are part of our intelligent future. But the hydrogen must ultimately be created by energy from an outside source, such as wind, nuclear, or even if one must gasoline, recognizing that the energy out will always be less than the energy in.

[Stephen]

Consumer Reports: I am surprised that you have not addressed this important concern. There is nothing more worrying than the price of gasoline at this moment. I cannot find any results when I search your site for key words pertaining to this "HHO" device.
I was a nuclear chemist and don't recall such a chemical existing and suspect this is a hoax. But this is exactly why we subscribe to CR. This issue is way more important than anything you are probably testing.
Give us a definitive word of wisdom here. Please respond to us bloggers. Please be bold and sort this out for us consumers so we can save a lot of money by either buying this contraption or not buying it as the case may be. We will appreciate it greatly!

[Daynan]

I can't beleve that CR has not considered the HHO water 4 gas system as an important issue to evaluate. Please take charge and do what you do. If it's good, great we'll all do it. If it's bad we'll put them out of businnes. Please find out if it's a fraud or our saving grace. we need this.
thanks

[Wayne]

I too would like CR to do a review and report on this (HHO conversion for improved fuel efficiency).

[Mary]

I live in Anchorage. At 150 miles away from home the cost of gas is $4.72 and rising. CR would you please advise if the HHO water for gas or similar systems really work.

[Keith]

All I know is that I have been looking into this for a month or so and am very skeptical, we all want it to work but certainly can't trust internet testimonials. All the write-ups on this fall into two categories. 1. Very good advertising across a broad spectrum, many are intended to look like independent reviews or personal accounts. 2. Bloggers, 1/2 wondering and asking and 1/2 saying it can't work (none have tried).
One thing keeps me searching for info. I have yet to find a single Blogger who says... 'Just installed mine and it didn't do a thing for my MPG'... Come on why can't I find any one who has tested this and not gotten results.

[Charles R. Richardson]

Come on CR! Where are you when we really need you? Didn't you like being called (once upon a time) Consumers "UNION"? We know what the price of gas is already and your article on running shoes was really great, but please help us find Dean and let us know about your intentions regarding "HHO water for gas " testing! We want to believe you are still our Champion!

[Jeff Bartlett - Consumer Reports]

We are taking a look at various fuel-saving devices, but can not announce a schedule for testing. Here is our last report:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/tires-auto-parts/car-maintenance/gassaving-devices-904/overview/index.htm

In reality, if there was a single miracle device that could significantly improve fuel economy while adhering to emissions standards and reliability requirements, you can rest assured it would be offered by a major automaker. These corporations spend millions chasing each mpg improvement, and at this stage, each new mpg found comes harder and harder without real compromises.

When I see some of these kits online, I just shake my head. I've seen kits for hundreds of dollars that combine a mason jar with hoses seemingly borrow from a home aquarium.

Here's a related article:
http://www.insidebayarea.com/trivalleyherald/ci_9492661

Innovation can certainly happen outside the traditional auto industry. But deceptive marketing practices definitely is happening. Careful what you buy in to, especially if it may compromise your powertrain warranty.

Consumer Reports is still a part of Consumers Union.
http://www.consumersunion.org/

And I don't know what happened to Dean.

It would be best to move this discussion to the forums, rather than continue on an old blog post. Might make it easier for Dean and others to find it.
http://discussions.consumerreports.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=cr-aftermarket

[Jay]

Water electrolysis cannot supply additional energy. That would violate the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. On the other hand the mixture of hydrogen and water vapor that is being injected into the carburetor could increase combustion efficiency. This could vary considerably from car to car. I would like to see Consumer Reports do some testing on the concept.

[Dean]

Hello all, it's Dean here.

Sorry to have taken so long to respond with results, but wow, what a 3 weeks it has been! Let me tell you about my experiences pro and con, also share what I have learned about this technology over these weeks. The kit I ordered came from H2Overdrive. It was somewhat difficult to install, but once I hooked everything up, got it charged up and watched it produce hydrogen, I was amazed. I had seen the YouTube experiments and decided to try lighting the hydrogen. I put hose in water so not to get any backfires, the held a lighter to the bubbles and they exploded like firecrackers! So I hooked it all up, and it works like a dream. I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee, EPA says it gets 14 city, 19 highway. Today I am getting 18 city, 30-32 highway!!! I bought a ScanGuage II, hooked it up to my on-board computer so that I could isolate the actual mileage on the highway without having to go on a long road trip to record the mileage/gallons used.

Now, for the negatives:

1) These units are great for highway driving, but for exclusive city driving I suspect they wouldn't produce enough increase in mileage to realize a reasonable payback period.

2) There is about a week long break-in period during which your installation will not generate the optimum results.

3) Every 30-60 days, depending on how many miles one drives, the unit needs to be flushed out with water and refilled with distilled water and catalyst. A minor job, but maintenance just the same.

4) The installation takes some doing. The generator and related parts are a no-brainer ... high school physics. however ... the most important part of any installation is how the hydrogen is introduced into today's gasoline and diesel engines. There are vacuum lines to consider, mass air flow sensor, and the manner in which the hydrogen is mixed with the airflow into the engine to insure that it reaches all cylinders. I definitely recommend professional installation. The manufacturer was extremely ready, willing and able to help me with the installation through emailed pictures, cell phones and such. They are career mechanics, and know these particular units inside and out.

Since doing my installation, I have helped 3 of my friends with their installations with similar results. Here is the skinny:

2000 Honda Odyssey - EPA 16/23, now 19/32
2001 Honda Passport - EPA 15/19, now 19/30
2001 Dodge Ram diesel highway increased from 18 to 27

Now for the icing -

There is definitely a significant reduction in emmissions coming from my exhaust pipe. This technology allows for approximately 90% of the fuel in the cylinders to be thoroughly burned, as compared to only about 15% in a gasoline engine, 40% in a diesel. When I hold my hand over the exhaust pipe, the is virtually none of the typical exhaust smell as before. This is really cool.

I am definitely satisfied with my purchase. Even though I own the plans to build this myself, I am extremely happy that I didn't tackle that. The expertise of the manufacturer convinced me of that. I can't say enough about these guys.

This unit sells for about $850.00 installed, $650.00 in do-it-yourself kit form.

There are most certainly higher priced units available, up to $3500.00. But as long as one doesn't mind tinkering with them a bit, I think the results are similar to the higher priced units.

I hope this evaluation helps. Now that I am out from under my hood, I will keep my eye on this blog daily to answer any questions that any of you have.

All the best,
Dean

[michael]

I'm worried about engine rusting over a few years since there is water vapor involved. Far more than with gasoline. Any information on that? Also pure oxygen is highly corrosive. Do the kits separate the oxygen from the hydrogen? Also are there cheap kits that do the same thing?

[Dean]

Michael,

From what I have experienced, the better equipment has either a bubbler or a drier trap. The purpose of both is to insure that no more water vapor than would be created by a day of high humidity reaches the intake.

I have seen cheaper and homemade units that go right from the HHO generator into the intake plennum, which would concern me enough not to even try it.

The generator produces a foam, which converts to bubbles fairly quickly, but without something additional to help that process, I would not install it.

However, a bigger concern for me would be the possibility of back-fires without some form of bubbler to arrest any spark that might occur.

I hope this helps.

All the best,
Dean

[Danny]

Dean

Did you have to do any thing to the cars computer system? Like change the air to fuel mix.

[Steve]

Thanks, Dean. You are comparing your actual mileage after installation with EPA estimates. Do you know what your before-installation actual mileage was?

[shane]

I'm very skeptical about "Dean" and his report. He sounds way too much like these scam websites. I'll wait for a report from a verifiable source like CR (or even any major newspaper).

[Gary]

I work for a new car dealer. One of the technicians in the service department constructed one of these devices from scraps he found at the dealership. He explained it to me and it is fascinating. He installed it on a small Toyota pickup and seen a 40% increase in gas mileage. He went into detail about gapping electrodes, o2 sensors retarding spark, etc. He seems very pleased with the results. As far as I can tell, what this tech produced was no scam. It supplements the gasoline, and increases the mpg.

[Al]

Mike,
I too have a Jeep Grand Cherokee (03) and was considering installing ...but just do not see much room under the hood...Did you put it in the air filter pod and use a K & N filter conversion kit..? I just do not see the room under the hood

[otandrt]

Common CR, get on the ball and give us some reviews on some of these HHO generators!

[Miguel]

I will tell you why CR position is that if this was so good the Car companies would have installed it on the cars since day one.
This thing works, but.
I have a 2001 Std. Ford Focus.
It was giving me before the HHO pump around 34 MPG. After the HHO it is giving me around 45MPG HighWay, City is harder to determine depending on how slow is the jam.
The problem with this thing is that the electrolysis corrode the anode and cathode on the HHO pump and if what U use as anode, Cathode is not thick enough it will not last more than 3 days.
At this very moment I am using Stainless Steel screws 5/8 thick by 8 inches long and I have to clean them on a weekly basis because the rust build up impairs inversely proportional the current on the water so the more rust the less HHO you get.
At the end of the 10th day you would not be getting any HHO at all.
So even tought the technology works if you do not give constant maintenance to it, it will stop working rather soon after you start using it.
So if a car company installs this on a car the cost to build the HHO pump in a manner that the owner does not have to constantly clean it would be the purpose of economy cause the system would be too expensive to build and/or maintain.

This works, if you are going to implement it be ready to constantly clean it and maybe replace your anode, cathode at least once a month.

[Robert]

Please research these water gas saving devices. Do they really work?

Thanks,
Robert

[calvin]

Hello Calvin,

Concerning the HHO Blogs on Consumer Reports...

It appears as though the majority of the people who are talking about or have installed HHO devices and are experiencing negative results or have complaints about it, do not have an adequate knowledge or understanding of what is required to make the system effective, reliable and, safe. Surprisingly, this includes the people involved in the Popular Mechanics experiment (HHO installation). Apparently, they did not do their homework. It is obvious that they did a hasty experiment that only included parts of the HHO system, leaving out the critical gas saving components. Essentially most people are installing the gas producing device (generator/electrolizer) to produce the HHO gas but, fail to install the key devices to tune the engine in order to effectively utilize the added HHO gas. Just adding HHO gas without tuning the engine will actually result in no gain or negative gain in mpg as reported by such bloggers. They are just wasting the HHO gas and causing more gasoline to be fed into the engine which ends up as reduced fuel economy.

As far as the individual who talked about generator reliability and high maintenance regarding electrode life, it is apparent that an extremely poor choice of electrode material and design was utilized in the construction of that HHO generator. At the very minimum the electrodes should be of 304 or 316 stainless steel composition and accompanied with matching hardware for reasonable reliability.

Due to PWM overheating, I have not been able to keep the HHO system on 100% of the time. Since I have to manually shut-off the system periodically (for a few minutes) to allow for cooling, I estimate the system is only utilized about 85-90 percent of the time. When compared to commercially produced PWM units the total surface area of my heat sink is half or less than half of those for sale. Basically, my PWM heat sink is undersized and is not capable of adequately dissipating the heat generated by the MOSFET (high speed electronic switch). Rather than removing to modify the present PWM circuit board to accommodate an additional MOSFET and matching heat sink to share the (electrical) load or refit it with a larger heat sink, I decided to add a miniature cooling fan (on order) to address the problem since the circuit board was located at a hidden area behind the dash panel with poor ventilation.

Although I have not refilled my gas tank yet, it looks like, according to my trip odometer and gas gauge, there has been an improvement over the previous tank. Currently, I'm still looking at ways to reduce the amount of electricity being used to produce the HHO gas.

In the recent weeks I built and added another component to my system. Due to space limitations the configuration and orientation of my HHO generator installation has resulted in the sloshing of the electrolyte (liquid) while driving and is being introduced into the gas supply hose to the engine intake. This has resulted in occasional engine hesitations (misfiring) especially when the generator has been serviced to a near or completely full level or following quick turns. To alleviate the problem, a water/gas separator was installed down stream of the HHO generator. The gas rises to the top and is used by the engine and water accumulates at the bottom. Periodically the drain valve is (manually) opened to empty out the trapped fluids.

This HHO project is ongoing and evolving. I'm not sure when it'll be done. As they say, there's always room for improvement but, in my case it's limited by the physical space of my little car...Hahaha...

[Scott]

I purchased a Smacks Boosters Gen II. The unit was well constructed and as advertised, $270. It took me several weeks to receive it.

However, I had to buy wire, hose, quick disconnect for the hose, ammmeter, and misc. hardware. This cost another $40 approximately. I installed it myself. Whew, it was a real project. I am no mechanic.

The hardest part was mounting the ammeter in a project box and wiring it into the truck. You must have an ammeter in order to monitor your amps. On my first try, I drew 40 amps, way too much. I diluted the solution and took it down to 27 amps, still too much. After several more tries, I got it down to 20 amps cold, 25 hot for a 1 hour trip.

My gas milage went from 24.3 miles per gallon to 29.7 miles per gallon. This is within the 20% increase in gas milage as advertised by the manufacturer. Also, no adjustment to my trucks computer was required.

I drive a Toyota Tacoma. I'm not sure but I think Japanese car's computers do better with this type system. I am told many American car's computers require manual adjustment. Hope this helps.

PS
Smacks has a youtube video. He hooked up six booster, powered by two batteries, to his Ford Ranger Truck. He increased his gas milage by 88.8%. However, he does have to recharge the batteries at night. It's still cheaper than gasoline though.

[steve]

Has anyone installed a hydrogen generator on a 6.7L 2007 3500 4x4 Dodge cummings diesel? If so what type, where did you get it and what is your current mileage?
Also, has anyone done the same on a semi tractor with a C16 cat diesel engine?

[different steve]

It appears that the better the tests of these devices are, the worse the results. Sure, there are anecdotes about improved mileage.....but you can get that by inadvertantly accelerating differently. The computer read-outs are apparently not accurate once the engine has been modified; and I suspect a lot of anecdotal reports are based on those readouts. Coast to Coast AM did a good test; MPG was worse and engine required servicing. Similar results with Popular Mechanics test.

Most of the improved mileage apparently comes from modifications that make the engine run lean enough to damage it.

Basically, since it takes 50% more energy to "crack" water than you get by burning the hydrogen, the promoters of these systems have a heavy burden of proof, and the bad science they are spouting simply does not support the claimed results. As pointed out, "HHO" is not a valid chemical formula, and the use of such meaningless terms is one of the signs of a scam. Often, when pushed, the promoters of these systems reply that the energy savings come not from the actual hydrogen, but from the HHO altering the way gasoline burns. That is even worse science, and unsupported by any evidence.

It might also be mentioned that the current devices are very little different than earlier versions such as those of Stanley Meyers; they are often based on Meyers' plans. And Meyers was convicted of fraud.

Really, if there were any basis to these claims, or any valid test results, we would have seen them reported very widely. Instead, what we get are the same exaggerated claims that lead to Stanley Meyers fraud conviction in 1996.

[different steve]

So, before you get scammed, think about this: why are all the positive comments coming from people who have just installed the units, and are comparing their supposed mpg only to EPA estimates?

Why are there no positive results from unbiased testers who were not already expecting good performance, with real comparisons of before and after mpg based on something more than computer read-outs or epa estimates?

The technology has been around for more than 10 years. Where are the reports from people who have been using the units for 5-6 years, reporting how happy they are?

And rather than guessing at how much the mpg has improved, how about this simple test: If you have installed one of these units, try driving down a level road at a constant speed with a steady foot on the gas pedal, with the unit off; then switch it on. Do you feel a sudden surge of increased power? If not, you are not really getting any increased mpg, and you have given your money to a con artist.

Like all con artists, the scammers will have "answers" for these points. However, if it uses the language of a con, gets the kind of test results that would be expected from a con, works only for those who already expected it would work; appears again and again in different versions over the years.....then it is a con game.

[MIKE GILES]

OK, I'M TRYING THIS ON A 99 LEXUS LX470, A JAZZED UP LANDCRUSIER. HAVE TWO OF THE INEXPENSIVE MASON JAR TYPE GENERATORS HOOKED UP AND AFTER COVERING THE O2 SENSORS WITH ALUMINUM FOIL, AM GETTING 15 MPG. NOT GREAT BUT BETTER THAN 11 - 12MPG I WAS GETTING. HOWEVER THE TRUCK SEEMS TO RUN A LOT BETTER, A LITTLE QUICKER. NEXT STEP IS TO PUT ON A COUPLE OF O2 SEPARATORS WHICH WILL BACK THE O2 SENSORS OUT OF THE EXHAUST FLOW AND GET LARGER MASON JARS TO GENERATE MORE GAS. FYI, THE BEST ELECTROLYTE MIXTURE I'VE FOUND (AFTER MUCH RESEARCH)IS 1/4 - 1/2 TEASPOON OF 100% SODIUM HYDROXIDE, GET IT AT LOWE'S PLUMBING SECTION AS "ROEBIC" CRYSTAL DRAIN OPENER AND DISTILLED WATER FROM WALMART. THIS PRETTY MUCH ELIMINATES THE CLOUDING AND CORROSION YOU GET WITH BAKING SODA AND PRODUCES MORE GAS. HOPE THIS HELPS. AS FOR DIFFERENT STEVE, BACK OFF, WE'RE ON A MISSION HERE.

[calvin]

This is a follow-up on blog: Posted by: calvin | Sep 24, 2008 5:26:55 AM...

My friend who allowed to post his email to me about the results of his HHO installation, see: calvin | Sep 24, 2008 5:26:55 AM above, has now given up on the project.

It seems as though he was having problems with corrosion as was brought out by Miguel | Sep 13, 2008 10:50:47 PM above.

He is a an A&P mechanic at a major airline, and is very meticulous in his workings.

If he could not figure out how to make the HHO water4gas (water4gas.com) work, then I would guess most do-it-yourself mechanics would also have a hard time.

My advise to anyone contemplating the installation of this water4gas device would be to seek professional help or not do it at all.

calvin