Just In: Chrysler Minivans

Like many Americans my age (mid-30s), my family's Chrysler minivan was a household fixture while growing up. For years, the company that invented and popularized the modern minivan (hold your comments about VWs, Corvair Corvan/Greenbriers, and Stout Scarabs, please) also ruled that market with the best product. My parents owned three: a 1988 Dodge Caravan LE, a 1994 Plymouth Grand Voyager, and a 1999 Chrysler Town & Country Limited that they still own. Excluding several transmission problems with the '94, the vans have served them well. And now as empty nesters, they still enjoy sitting up high in the comfy T&C.

But when I bought a minivan to support my weekend whitewater kayaking exploits, a Chrysler didn't make my list. Why not? After years of smaller minivans, Honda and Toyota finally figured out full-sized models with their Odyssey and Sienna, respectively. These vans offered modern, powerful, more-fuel-efficient drivetrains, well-finished interiors, modern safety equipment, and better reliability.

Meanwhile, Chrysler's minivans fell behind the curve: the last Grand Caravan we tested in 2005 lacked a smooth, modern multi-valve V6 and retained an antiquated four-speed automatic transmission. Interior fit and finish and seat comfort were so-so. Stability control was obvious by its absence, and reliability waxed and waned. Sure, the Stow 'n Go seats are slick (I'm stuck with the Odyssey's second-row seat permanently parked in my basement) and there were usually big incentives on all domestic models, but that wasn't quite enough.

Chrysler is trying to retain its sales lead and be more competitive to ensure it stays on top with their 2008 versions. Minivans are a big deal to Chrysler. Despite the overt shortcomings of the old vans, the company still sells around 400,000 a year. (Toyota sells about 160,000 Siennas.) But at the same time, the minivan market is contracting. Unlike my parents, many minivan owners moved onto SUVs (which look more rugged and less suburban even though the streets of suburbia are full of them) or back to sedans.

Look inside the sliding doors
With the 2008 redesign, all Caravans are now "Grand." The short-wheelbase model is gone, leaving Kia/Hyundai alone in that segment. The AWD option disappeared in 2005 due to floor pan modifications to accommodate Stow 'n Go and low take rates; only the Sienna currently offers AWD.

Beyond these fringe omissions, the new Chrysler vans cover the mechanical basics needed to play next to the Sienna and Odyssey:

• An available modern, overhead-cam 4.0-liter V6 (which considerably improved the freshened Pacifica we tested) along with the carryover 3.3-liter and 3.8-liter V6s.
• The segment's first six-speed automatic (with both the 4.0-liter and the 3.8-liter engines).
• A full slate of air bags and standard stability control. (Among competitors, only the Nissan Quest lacks standard ESC.)

But to further lure buyers back, the Chrysler products offer lots and lots of interior features, many of which are unique in the minivan segment:

• "Swivel 'n Go" second-row seats that rotate around to face the back row in a club seating arrangement, complete with a removable table in between
• A hard drive in the sound system that can store music or pictures. (You load it through a USB port, so you don't need to play a CD to record music.)
• A backup camera that doesn't require purchasing a navigation system.
• Nifty interior lighting that, among other things, surrounds the overhead console in a soft glow.
• Lots and lots of storage, including a clever multi-level center console that slides back to the second-row seats, under-floor storage compartments, and a molded door-side bin for an umbrella.

We bought two 2008 Chrysler vans to test: a Dodge Grand Caravan SXT with the 3.8-liter V6 and a Chrysler Town & Country Limited with the 4.0-liter. While they compete strongly on the specification sheet, we'll see how they stack up against the quietness, power, and ride of the Sienna, the spry handling of the Odyssey, and the value of the Kia Sedona/Hyundai Entourage.

A First Look is scheduled for October, offering our initial impressions as these minivans undergo testing for a future report.

--Tom Mutchler

Comments

[bfarabaugh]

I'm driving my second Chrysler minivan a T&C. this one like the Plymouth Voyager that preceded it had to have the transmission repaired at or about 60000 miles. Its an expensive repair and seems to be a recurring bug with Chrysler vans. I probably wont buy another Chrysler as they should have fixed this a long time ago. I think I'll be buying Toyota next time (soon). Chrysler shouldnt take their customers for granted. We're not made out of money.

[Luke]

We had a toyota minivan, and it was horrible. It was a 1998 toyota sienna . My parents bought it brand new. There first new car, and that thing was always in the show. three years later, my mom bought a mini-van for work. It was a 1995 ford windstar. It had a 100,000 miles on it. My mom drives an hour to work and back. In the almost seven years she has had the van, the only things replaced were the tires, brakes, and tie rods. That van know has 226,000 miles. They ended up trading in the sienna in 2004, and getting a new ford freestar. It had a couple recalls, but besides that hasent been in the shop, except for general maintence. We are sad ford got rid of the minivan, they had an amazing one!!

[Ron Russell]

My 1996 Ford Windstar was the worst vehicle I ever owned. The tie rods had to be replaced every 20,000 km. The speedometer quit. The transmission would frequently not upshift but the dealer could never find a problem. One morning when starting up, a fire developed under the hood. Luckily a passing trucker had an extinguisher. Ford has never admitted a Windstar problem with the cruise control as it has with other similar setups but I wonder. What a piece of junk!

[Lee]

I have a 1999 Grand Caravan. It has been great for trips and around town . A 3.3L flex fuel purchased used in 2002 to my knowledge it has never had a sip of E85. The stations just don't carry it in Metro Detroit and I have yet to see it on interstate filling stations as I cross the eastern half of the country.
The seats move easily but storage while removed is a hassle. Doing my own wrenching has poven fairly easy and infrequent. A very dependable vehicle. The engineering on the reclining front seats could have been a lot more robust. A four- year-old child successfully snapped off both drver and passenger recline control shafts. Pressed in aluminum they are not a replaceable part and a $299.00 assembly that is riveted to the seat is the MOPAR repair. For a dealer or shop to fix both seats puts you in range of a nice down payment for a new mini-van.

[Vince]

I'm driving my second Chrysler minivan (1st a '92 Dodge Grand Caravan LE and the curent a 2000 Chrysler T&C LXi). When I bought the first minivan, I mentioned my concerns about transmission problems (having read "Consumer's Report") to one of the Dodge dealer mechanics. He advised me to change the transmission fluid and filter every 25K miles and I shouldn't have any problems with the transmission. I have followed this advise every since and have never had any transmission problems. I should say we put 175K miles on the '92 before selling it and the 2000 has approx. 125K miles on it. My one complaint with these older model vans is the brake set-up (disc front/drums rear). The front pads wear out way too soon because that's where the braking power is. The rear drums essentially are for the parking brake.

[Thomas R. Eells]

Mr. Mutchler:
I just got bitten by the Chrysler transmission bug. Our 1999 Town & County LXi is in the shop for major transmission repairs. Both planetary gear sets and a variety of bearings, shafts and seals are being replaced. The dealer is "working with me" on the labor cost, but not the parts. It'll be about $1800 to get it back on the road. Like another writer here, I previously owned another Mopar minivan, a 1991 Dodge Grand Caravan LE. We drove it gingerly for it's entire life (90,000 miles) feeling lucky that the "haunted" 4 speed transmission hadn't failed when we traded it in on the T&C. Maybe the defect was fixed? Not!

The really disappointing part is that we changed the fluid and filter at reasonable intervals (three times during the 75,000 miles until failure) and my wife drove it gently.

I've surfed the web and found stories by many other dissatisfied owners reporting similar transmission failures. One guy told of replacing the transmission three times! I also checked the CPSC and NHTSA web sites looking for technical service bulletins or evidence of hidden warranties. Nothing. Does anyone know whether Chrysler is doing anything for customer satisfaction with these weak transmission? How do I approach Chrysler? To whom do I write?

[R. Gedney]

I have a 2005 Chrysler T & C Touring edition mini-van, my third van (1996 and 1999 Plymouth vans) and am very happy with it. Before I bought this van, I drove all the competitors vans, including Toyota and Honda. I guess it takes an expert to note the difference in ride, handling and engines cited by CU, because I chose the Chrysler after doing all the test drives. After 50,000 miles, I have not regretted that decision. Service problems (knock on wood) have been non-existent. I drove the car out of the showroom and never looked back. The 3.8 litre engine has more than adequate acceleration and hardly ever shifts down on hills. I would like better gas mileage (especially now), but do see 23 mpg on the highway at 70 mph .. better than any mid-size or large SUV.

[Joebn Brown]

My 6,000 mi..2007 Chrysler Touring will suddenly acceleratem (fast) when going from a slow 5 mph start.
Anyone have this problem?
Thanks,
Joe

[Cindy Miller]

I have a 2004 Toyota Sienna Minivan and have just been informed by AAMCO that it will be around $4100 for a new transmission. I have less than 72,000 miles on it and am appauled that the transmission is shot already. I was told that the planetary gear has failed and that the clutches for each gear are also failing. AAMCO dropped the transmission fluid pan and showed me three very tiny speckles of aluminum and said that was signs of failure. I feel completely helpless. Any advice from anyone? Of course Toyota says I should have taken the van to them but honestly, every time I have taken the van to the dealership for service, something else has gone wrong with the car. I think my biggest mistake was buying the Sienna before Toyota had the chance to work all the bugs out of it, which was overhauled from the older Sienna model the year I got mine. I should have known the van was trouble when we got our first recall notice for a faulty gas tank just a month after buying it.

I'm considering selling this and getting a Kia Sedona. I'd love to hear any input from people who have had theirs at least 3 years. Thanks

[Bob Tafelski]

I have a 1999 Plymouth Voyager mini-van, my third van (1991 and 1993 Plymouth vans) and am very happy with it. I have 112,000 miles on my last van without any major engine or transmission problems (Knock on Wood). The gas mileage on the highway is about 25-27 MPG with a 3.3 liter engine. I wish I could by another one just like to one I have now.

Thanks,

Bob

[edd browne]

My 1999 Plymouth Voyager has 145,000 miles
and a 4-speed trany.

Recently the trany failed badly, and I
will be paying 2100 for an overhaul at
a non-dealer shop.

They told me: the Chrysler trany has a common
defect where the oil cooler in the radiator
clogs up easily, causing reduced oil flow and
overheating. This often leads to a pin working
loose in the differential, and a mangled mess.

If you have one, you should have a separate
oil cooler installed, and just plug the
existing ports on that part of the radiator.

Short of that, be sure to maintain the trany
carefully, and backflush the oil cooler part
of the radiator at some unknown interval.

[JOE MANN]

BACK IN 2002 I PURCHASED THE HONDA ODYSSEY WHAT A GREAT VAN I TRADED FOR A 2003 I LOVED IT SO MUCH ONLY BECAUSE OF MORE HORSE POWER AND DISC BRAKES ALL ROUND, SOLD IT AT 300,000 KM WITH NO PROBLEMS , IN 2004 BOUGHT CHRYSLER SXT MINI VAN ..IN LESS THEN 20,000K HAD TWO NEW TRANSMISSIONS ,WATER PUMP, POWER STEERING PUMP, AND NEW BRAKES THIS I DROVE MOSTLY ON HIGHWAY.I SOLD IT WITH ONLY 50K, 2005 BOUGHT ANOTHER CHRYSLER THINKING THEY HAVE IMPROVED BUT AFTER PROBLEMS WITH SHIFTING AND ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS, STRUTS REPLACEMENT ,DISC BRAKES REPLACED...THE GAS MILAGE ON CHRYSLER MINI VANS AND THEIR VEHICLE NEEDS IMPROVEMENT..THE HONDA IS THE BEST FOR GAS , RELIABILITY,PERFORMANCE , AND RESALE VALUE.

[Cathy]

I too have a 2004 Toyota Sienna and just went to Toyota today with a noise in my transmission, the bad news is they say we need a new transmission. We bought it new and it has only 77,000 miles on it which for a Toyota is still low mileage. I have been an owner of a Toyota since 1980 and this has never happened before. I am very disappointed in Toyota and the dealership where we bought it for how they are treating us in this situation.

[edd browne]

After dropping $2600 on a blown Chrysler TE41/A604
transmission, I explored the causes further.
In addition to adding an external cooler,
the ONLY fluid that should be used is one of
those certified to Chrysler's ATF+4 MS-9602.

Chrysler certifies various brands beyond their
Mopar MS-9602, full synthetic, part 05013457AA.
Based on Alldata, Chrysler, allpar, and other
sources, ATF+4 9602 should be used whatever the manual,
or labels, or transmission experts say is right.

Even ATF+3 is obsolete. You can buy 9602 in quart
and gallon containers. A list of licensed brands
is found at www.centerforqa.com/licensedatf4brands.html
but be sure what you buy is type 9602.

[chris]

i bought used 2004 dodge caravan 12,000k in january of 07', i added 10,000k to date, 12 miles to and from work, also add about 10 miles extra a week for pleasure, so far to date i have spent close to $3,000 in repairs, repairs include power steering pump replacement with resevoir, struts and shocks, loose suspension, front brakes and rotors, purge valve, and sensors...now current problems that need to be repaired...1. alternator needs to be replaced, 2. suspension is loose AGAIN!...i am pretty sure there is more to come,...pretty soon i will go bankrupt just like wall street, my advice to others, STAY AWAY FROM CHRYSLER!!!!, just rely on mass transit, less headaches and heart attacks due to price of repairs

[GHancock]

I have a 2006 Model Chrylser Minivan Signature Series. In the past three (3) months have had to have the auto locks reprogram three (3) times. Now I have got to have sometype of body module? replaced at the cost of $460.00. Is there anyone out there that has had the same problem. Please reply.

[Cheryl]

Another Chrysler trans bites the dust! My 2002 Town & Country LTD died -- without warning -- on 12/7/08, with only 78,000 miles. Kaboom! Noises and jerking, and then NOTHING. No gears, no park, NOTHING. Costing me $2,600 for a USED transmission with 81,000 miles and a lifetime warranty (installed by Chrysler dealership). Awful. I wish I still had my old Aerostar. Never had a lick of trouble with that van, and it had over 225,000 miles on it when I traded it in for the T&C. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[Mark H.]

I have a 2005 T&C. After reading the above I am scared for my tranny. I have changed the fluid a couple of times but drive lots of miles around OH. What is the best kind of secondary oil cooler to get for the tranny fluid and where can one buy it?
Also, we have had to do lots of premature repairs to this thing.